Dragons report on the Branching Streams Gathering

[00:00:00] Speaker A: For more information on Ancient Dragon Zen Gate, please visit our website at www.ancientdragon.org. our teachings are offered to the community through the generosity of our supporters. To make a donation online, please visit our website. That's the signal. Okay, so as most of you know, I will repeat it. Tigan, who's I believe online with us. Yes. Douglas, Paula, and Howard, who isn't here today, kind of sadly, along with our cushions and Bells, spent most of the past week in Woodstock, Illinois, at a gathering of Sanghas in the Suzuki Roshi lineage. So it was sort of a great coming together on this wonderful native land, Chicago area. Woodstock's really quite beautiful. Bucolic, I might say. So in some ways. All the cushions you were sitting on were also occupied by all these other Dharma friends from other Sanghas. Just the other day we shared our seats. And just to make sure we're all on board, the San Francisco Zen center organization known as Branching Streams, embraces the many sanghas internationally who share our family style of Zen practice in kind of the Suzuki Roshi way of Soto Zen. I think that scroll, if you can see it, it has all these branching streams flowing into one, which I think is quite evocative of how we all practice together with the larger flow into the larger river and the great ocean of the Dharma. So that's what we were doing. We were all meeting together. And recently, as some of you may know, a new collection of Suzuki Roshi talks called Becoming Yourself was published and it was co edited by the abbot of Greengolch Farm. San Francisco is one of their training three training temples, Jiryu. And unfortunately, Jiryu became ill during our meeting. So I apologize to those of you who came to hear Jiryu talk about Suzuki Roshi's book Becoming Yourself. Not really going to talk about that directly today. However, I just would like to say that we have some books at a discount in our library, so you're welcome to purchase them. And Jiryu was very sad that he couldn't come visit us because he was ill. He just had a very bad cold. He didn't want to infect us and wanted to rest at home. But he promised to be back and do a Midwest, a small Midwest tour. And you know, he has a long history with Ancient Dragon and with me as a personal friend. And so we'll. He'll be back. But in lieu of cheerio, you have Tigan, myself, Douglas and Paula, who all will share our experience of the Branching Streams gathering. And since you couldn't be there in person, you know, our space was limited, but I thought it'd be nice to just give you a little information and just share what went on, what goes on at these things, these gatherings. First of all, it happens every other year. And Douglas has been our representative on the Branching Streams advisory group for eight years. How many years? 8,000. 20. 16. So that's almost nine, 10 years. Nine plus years. So he meets with that group monthly for many years. And I don't think we can underestimate how important Tonto Douglas's presence in that group has been to, to help form a strong bond for our sangha with the many Branching streams related to San Francisco Zen Center. So thank you very much, Douglas. But that's not all that Douglas has been doing with Branching Streams, our sangha. So there's the advisory group, which is just like a general gathering of teachers that meets with the liaison, Tova Green or whoever, her next success. The person who will be in her job beginning around the turn of the year, I think is going to be Heather Iruso. But Tova's been with Branching Streams for a long time as the sort of leader from San Francisco Zen center, coordinating everything. So Douglas has been in that group, which is kind of constantly running. Then when there is a Branching Streams meeting, another program committee pops up with more representatives. And then because we co hosted this event, there's a local logistics committee. So Douglas has been on all three committees. Paula has been on two of them, just logistics. So you weren't on the meeting program committee. Okay, so you were off the hook for that, but Douglas was not. So just to give you this idea that behind the scenes, there's other things running that connect us to a broader group. It's not like the Vatican, exactly, because Zen groups are pretty autonomous. But it's really wonderful that we get to connect with people who really share our family style. And I think everyone at the meeting kind of felt like, oh, we're meeting our cousins and Dharma friends. I also want to do a shout out to Howard, who's not here, who worked with Paula on logistics quite closely, as did Douglas, of course. And that is bringing a herd of Zen people from all over the place, the country and the world really, to Chicago, and then to get to Woodstock, Illinois. So there is a lot involved in that. And I think that, you know, some of the people in the room right now who've helped are Wade and Mike were driving cushions and people. And Yana was on call, and Jerry was on call, and Dale helped bring Tig in. And so there's just a lot of logistical stuff. I actually didn't do all that much. I just showed up. So I felt kind of very supported and very lucky and it's really hard work. But I will say these Dragons are efficient. You know, you all have such wonderful energy that it felt like things went pretty seamlessly that deal now. So a wholehearted effort and practice I think contributed of the Dragons to this very deep and rich meeting that we had. The theme of the conference was Bridging and belonging to living a Zen life in the midst of conflict. Typical Zen title, super long. Right. Because we want to include everything. And unlike some conferences, structure of the conference was really wonderful and I think really exhibits our values. You know, sometimes when you go to meetings like this there's one big speaker and you know then there are breakout workshops that some expert runs. But this was a self organized process. And just to give you an idea of how things went every for the breakouts during. So we would sit zazen in the morning as usual what 6:45 is when Zazen started. So your typical, you know, unlike us we start at 7:30 or 8 6:45 in the Zendo. And afterwards, you know, we had breakfast and then we went to the a giant meeting room where everybody got themselves together for the day. So if you think of this as a grid envision a grid on the top of the grid would be the different times like 9 11, 13 for meetings. And then on this side would be the rooms. So you had this grid meet meeting time room with blank spaces. And so everyone was invited to use what's called open space technology. So these little rectangles or crossings of the grid, these meeting times in rooms were all open flank and everyone in the group was invited to offer a topic and to take responsibility for that meeting. Could also everyone in the room was invited to take responsibility for what meeting they went to. So you are directing yourself. And I think this is such a wonderful example of how Zen practice can work. There's a lot that we can do in Zen practice but we find our way that works with our bodies, hearts and minds. And so nobody was forced to go to a meeting nor were you forced to stay in the meeting. And people, not everybody had to offer a topic but I'll give you just an example of topics that came up. So these were topics generated by people in the moment. And that generation happened both mornings. So there was one group on the first morning of the meeting, one on the second where we generated and some of these topics were communication structures for conflict Neurodiversity continuing in the absence of a founder. Fundraising. Adapting to generational changes. A teacher's role in engaged Buddhism. Adapting to generational changes. Cloud and ground, sameness and differences Connecting through zazen and ritual. So this gives you a little flavor. And the meetings could repeat the next day if people wanted that. And there was a couple people who just organized us in this process. And then we were appointed to four principles that guide this kind of open space meeting, technology meeting, or whatever it's called, Open space meetings. And the meeting was governed by these four principles. Whoever comes to a meeting is the right people to be in that meeting at that time and place. Whatever happens is the only thing that could have happened. Whenever it starts is the right time, and when it is over, it is over. So someone would come around with a bell to signal the end of meetings, you know, and people could still keep talking. And then I referenced this law of mobility. So you could go to a meeting and say nothing. You could go to a meeting and leave. No harm, no foul, you know. Ever been in a professional meeting where you felt, like, trapped? I have. And so there was this kind of freedom and also the responsibility of, you know, what you get and what you give and how you relate is your business, you might say. So that's how the meetings took place. And Paula and Howard also performed at a skit night. So one night there was a skit night, and it was great. Paula did a kung fu form. Form. That's what they call it, a form, believe it or not, Very dynamic and graceful and beautiful and really rocked the house, you know. And Howard gave an evocative reading of some work he's involved in. You know, he's a writer as well as many other things. So it was really, really quite beautiful. So it was great to see the many talents of people. And just to let you know, I attended the Engage Buddhism meeting. Continuing in the absence of a founder was another meeting I attended. Adapting to generational changes, the cloud and ground sanghas. It was very interesting even in that meeting. It's almost like people don't even realize that there's cloud and ground anymore, because everybody's doing hybrid. So I found that kind of interesting. And the role of a teacher in engaged Buddhism, you know, how when you occupy a dharma seat, what does that mean? And connection through zazen and ritual. So I attended those things. And also one of the things I found very nourishing was just being able to talk to my dharma friends and about what's happening in their sanghas and Their lives. You know, many of these people I've done intensive practice with over many different years and in different places. So it was really great to see them. But I think what we'll do now is starting with Tigen, if you're up for it, maybe we'll take five to seven minutes. So, Paul, if you could ring the bell every five minutes, like after the speaker starts, just a small bell so you could keep time for us. Can you do that? Okay. And just so we move along and everybody gets to speak. And so Teigen came, and it was really wonderful to have you here, Teigen, and please share your experience and impressions. [00:14:02] Speaker B: Thank you, Hogetsu. So one of the things that always at such meetings is important for me is just the time between panels, over meals, and in between, and just connecting with old friends. So Tricia Teeter from Udambara Sangha drove me there Tuesday morning. Stan McCullough, who owns the store in Richmond and is part of Richmond's End center, where I taught for several years before I settled in Chicago for Ancient Dragon, he was there. It was great to see him. Dan Gudgell, who is. Is now the leader of Mountain Source Sangha, which I started in the Bay Area before I came to Chicago. And it's still going. And so anyway, Dan was there. He's been at Tassajara and been very active. And Peter Van Der Steer, who was the only other person who was at Zen center in the 70s, he was there. So we ran, reminisced about Baker Roshi and about things in the 70s. And anyway, so it was great to see all of them. So I went to panels on engaged Buddhism. I also went to one on intergenerational things and on mapping Zen centers. But I went to three different engaged Buddhist panels talking about how we interact with all the stuff of the world. One of them was about how dharma teachers speak about engaged Buddhism. So it was very rich. I also led a panel on Gaza and genocide. So I wanted there to be a discussion of Gaza and of the genocide that's happening there as part of this event. So that was very rich. People talked about, well, our frustrations with what to do, the importance of talking about Gaza and the genocide that we are sponsoring there. This is an American genocide. The Israeli forces are doing it. But it's our weapons and our money and our political clout that keeps this genocide going in Gaza. A horrible slaughter of children, starvation of the whole Palestinian peoples in Gaza and the West Bank. So, you know, there were different things that people said about what they are doing. But, yeah, it was. It was good to have to be able to talk about it, Just to talk about what's going on there was important for me, and to hear people's different takes on it, how people are trying to help was important. And then there were two Engaged Buddhism panels talking about, in general, how people are dealing with ICE and the attack on immigrants. So there were a few people from Washington, D.C. several people, including the teacher there, who. And they are occupied now, and Chicago is occupied, too, but maybe a little bit less so than Washington, D.C. where it's just militarized. And so how do we face this? How do we talk about this? And then there was also a panel about what to say from the Dharma seat and how to talk about politics. And the context was inclusivity. How do we include people from different contexts and different points of view and different perspectives in all of these kinds of discussions. So there were two different panels just on Engaged Buddhism and just people talking about what they're doing. And in Washington, D.C. where the ICE agents are rounding up people and where it's really. The sangha in. In Washington, D.C. is. Is close to. Is in a neighborhood that is under attack, basically, and ICE agents are rounding up people. So it's. And one of the things that we came to towards the end of one of these panels was just the fear that is generated by all these ICE agents, but that it's important not to give in to the fear. And so how to do that? But also some people, people who are immigrants, people who are Hispanic, Anybody who's Hispanic is threatened by this. So how do they avoid it? So in Chicago, there were marches that were supposed to happen in celebration of Pilsen, and other places in Chicago where there are strong Latin American presence and people were afraid to go out in the streets. So a couple of those things were canceled. But how do we not give in to the fear? So it's important to stand up to what's going on. And thank you for that. So I'll just take a couple more minutes. And then the question about Dharma teachers speaking about any of this from the Dharma seat was really present. We want to be inclusive. We want to realize that there are, amongst our sangha, many different points of view about all of this. And so how do we include this? But also that we, as Dharma teachers may talk about politics. Politics is about how we work together. And so politics is spiritual. Spirituality is political. So we need to find a way to talk about these things. And it's not about imposing any perspective. So When I speak about these things, I don't want to impose my point of view, but I also feel like I have to share my point of view to express myself completely. So, you know, in terms of Gaza and genocide and anti Semitism, which is being weaponized, to talk about any criticism of the state of Israel being anti Semitic is not anti Semitic. It's necessary. There is antisemitism. I was bar mitzvah at Tigan. [00:21:16] Speaker A: I want to thank you very much for sharing your. Your viewpoint and your experience of the conference. But I think is probably, you know, what we're. We're really looking for is to talk about the Branching Streams Conference, and maybe it's a good time to switch to Douglas. So thank you very much. [00:21:35] Speaker B: Just to finish. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Just to. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Excuse me. Just to finish what I was saying that I was. Or I missed it, a Tree of Life Synagogue where there was a real anti Semitic attack, and a high school classmate and a woman who lived across the street from me growing up were killed. So that's real anti Semitism. Okay. But the Branching Streams conference was wonderful just to be with all these people who are part of Suzuki Roshi lineage from all around the country. And there was a fellow from Columbia who was also there. [00:22:05] Speaker A: So. [00:22:06] Speaker B: So anyway, okay, thank you very much, Hatsu. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Thank you. Ta again. And I think we'll move over to Douglas. [00:22:14] Speaker C: Thank you. I want to give a quick pitch for Branching Streams because we send them some money as dues, and we send people to these gatherings every couple of years. So Branching Streams right now, it's growing all the time, is 70 sanghas in the United States and 14 sanghas internationally. Groups that range from small sitting groups, really, places that have no physical space in Ujit City, and then up to larger places. Chapel Hill, Houston, Austin, in addition to San Francisco, Zinc and his campuses and Branching Stream, These are all autonomous Sanghas. So while we were in the Suzuki Roshi lineage, we are not subject to any control from San Francisco Zensa, which result in a lot of diversity among the Sanghas. There were 26 Sanghas represented at this gathering, two Sanghas from outside the United States, San Antonio de Silencio in Medellin, Colombia, and Vancouver's. We had two representatives there. And Branching Streams is, I would have to say, as a practical matter, it's primarily a means of communication among Sanghas and Sangha leaders. So they're regular newsletters every couple of weeks. They're also. We have a mailbox that allows us to share questions among the Sanghas, if somebody has a question. So Someone will ask, well, okay, how do you conduct zazen instruction? And who can provide zazen instruction? People can respond to that sort of thing. Hougetsu gave a really good breakdown of how the open source technology format works. And I want to emphasize that while we. There's really no control over what people want to talk about. It's what's live for them and what's live for someone who's likely to. Big living question for a number of other people as well. But we're not even restricted by the supposed theme of the gathering. That, you know, not bridging and belonging, living a Zen life in the midst of conflict. Fine, but. And that, that could. That involved what sorts of structures for communication there could be when there's conflict in the Sangha, obviously, when there's conflict in society, at least three. Well, they want more than that. Quite a number of breakouts on those kinds of problems of conflict in society. But also, how would you start a new Zen center? As Fugetsu said, what happens when you have generational change? What happens when the founder of a Zen center is not around anymore? Also more personal questions, like there was a breakout session on Zen and partners. So Zen and partners and spouses. What happens if there is a spouse or a partner who does not practice? And all of these, almost all of these people were Sangha leaders. There's a sort of conflict on allocation of personal time to relationships and Zen. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Bites, that sort of thing. [00:25:34] Speaker C: So it's. It can be very valuable. And I myself participated in, you know, bridging traditional practice and activism, trauma informed Zen practice, connecting through zazen and ritual, remembering and forgetting. The Precepts, which was first a presentation by Jiryu and then a breakout group and something that we'll get to undoubtedly in the course that's coming up on one of the Precepts. She might talk about that where Jiryu raised an important question where about how Suzuki Roshi's emphasis was, as he said, forgetting the precepts. So not just having this list of rules that you follow one by one by one, but he has a very traditional understanding of the Precepts, which is essentially that living through big mind, living through Buddha mind is itself the expression of the precepts. And that's an understanding that came from Dogen and Dogen's background in Tendai Buddhism. That is Tendai's understanding of the consensus. Well, but does it create some sort of danger that I could do whatever I want? Oh, yeah, I'm. I'm being very nice to people. So I must be following presets. And then I guess another one I was in was mapping incentives where a group of people were trying to get together to create. Create some sort of understanding of the evolution of a zensuva from a sitting group into something larger and more stable, like into Dragon or Austin or Houston, for example. What are some milestones that are reached and what marks a change? What are the new needs at various stages? So obviously that sort of thing can be very helpful. But beyond that, beyond being able to take some nuts and bolts advice from other people, just there's. It's very inspirational to be with other practitioners who love the Dharma and. And hopefully can bring that back to you. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Do you have a concluding statement? [00:27:40] Speaker C: No, I think that. I think that's it. But that it's inspirational. It's energizing to be able to see these people practice within and come back and do something, hopefully communicate that enthusiasm. And I think we all felt. Thank you. [00:27:56] Speaker A: One more. [00:27:58] Speaker C: Yes, you may. Or what if. What if I said no? [00:28:02] Speaker A: We could talk about it. [00:28:03] Speaker D: We didn't learn anything. [00:28:04] Speaker B: We have another one. [00:28:05] Speaker A: We just talk about it. You know, it's fine to say no. [00:28:10] Speaker C: Just bridged. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Would you like it back? [00:28:13] Speaker C: No. No. [00:28:14] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:15] Speaker D: In action up here. [00:28:16] Speaker A: Paula, would you like to carry this microphone? [00:28:19] Speaker D: Yes, please. [00:28:20] Speaker A: There you go. Thank you. So. So, you know, even the bell, like, you know, you stop talking when the bell rings. You know, you give some time and space to open up conversation, which I think is. Was. Was something we all really enjoyed at this conference. So here you go. He. And could we just check with the cloud to make sure their sound and whatnot is all good? [00:28:50] Speaker D: Everyone's hearing okay? [00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Seeing and hearing okay. Okay. [00:28:54] Speaker D: So just in general, I've been. This is the fourth one I've attended over 10 years. So one of the very nice things about it is when we get together in these conferences, there's a lot of discussion about where the lineage is in relation to American culture, where the individual sanghas are in relation in relation to American culture. And things that were discussed over the years and tried to implement over the years are starting to come to fruition. So I'm. So there's two things about that. Because this lineage started in California in 1959. You know, there was, and there still is a lot of therapists, social workers, medical professionals, people that care for other people. And that was a heavy influence 10 years ago, where you would find just a handful of people doing other things in the room. Now there are so many more people from so many different walks of life that you would not have found 10 years ago, number one. Number two, there's many more young people that were attending. And number three, there was much more diversity in who was there on every level. On every level. So not coming from a therapeutic background, you know, I'm not heavy on dialogue. You know, a lot of talking about things, talking about things, talking about things. Because a lot of times I. I just felt like, well, it kind of makes the person talking about it feel better. But what actually happens then, you know, it's hard. It's hard to take from conversation into action. We all know that. But I will say, since I have been attending over 10 years, I'm seeing it happening, I'm seeing it manifesting. And I did mention to a couple of people that have been. That are, you know, organizing and have been running some of the larger temples where there was a very concerted effort to create more inclusion, youth, diversity, that it seems like it's working. So I've been sold on the dialogue a little bit. Okay. Because I've actually seen it happen. With that being said, we. For me, on a personal level, you know, coming into a Zen center is extremely intimidating if you don't feel you're seeing someone who is relating to you directly. So you could look at me and go, well, you know, you have a maid, right? You're going to walk in anywhere and people are going to see you. But being from Chicago and being direct and being energetic and being a very physical person, I didn't feel that way. Now I'm feeling more accepted. The way I communicate, the way I. What I do for a living, what I practice in relation to my Zen practice, how I express myself in that I feel much more accepted because I'm seeing so many people from different walks of life that are doing similar things to me, that are communicating that way, that are moving around, that are performing or whatever the case might be. So that gave me more liberty to express myself as well. And that's why I did the form. So I've been around for 15 years, and I've never done any kung fu for anybody here, except if they came to the school. And even when I'm teaching, I don't perform. I teach, which is very different things. So it took. And I was a little stressed out anyway because the. Because of the logistics. And I always get a little stressed out before I perform. So I was thinking, well, I'm already a little stressed out, so I might as well just perform because I'm inhabiting that Space with the heart beating more and the blood pressure up. So all in all, it was a very nice experience. What I attended was more programming. How do we create programming for people with families? How do we create programming for people who are caring for elder people? How do we create programming and acceptance for neurodiverse people, which we're finding more and more young people are having those kind of issues. Probably did before. Now it's more diagnosed transparency in communication. You know, that's very difficult on micro levels and macro levels on every level. Interpersonal communication in the sangha and then making statements to the public about things that are going on. Intergenerational change. How do you have a diverse group of people of all these different ages and you make all of them feel welcome and give roles to all of them in creating this community. And also Juryu's additional conversation about Shunru Suzuki and his perspective on the precepts, that was also very illuminating and very. I can't wait for him to come back. It's going to be amazing, guys. It's really, really some good stuff. Some really good stuff. So all in all, it's always an amazing experience. I love the open format, so you could go to what interests you and you didn't necessarily have to sit through something that didn't. I found that very helpful myself as well. But all in all, wonderful. And I really appreciate the help that we got from everybody here. Some people at my Confusco also helped me bring cushions and stuff like that. So it definitely was a Chicagoland and Milwaukee Land community effort. And we're all very appreciative of that. And I think that's all I have to say since I'm, you know, direct. I cut it before my seven minutes. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Thanks, Paul. Well, you know, thank you all very much. And I also just want to, like, give a great congratulations to the Dragons for making this conference happen. And Paula and Howard and Tigan and Douglas and everyone really. And you know, one of the things that is, to me was very unusual when I first started practicing Zen is that people are willing to dwell in uncertainty and possibility at the same time. And so everyone's words were kind of written on these giant post it notes and collected and then some Tova was here transcribing them after, you know, these pages and pages, they were stuck on the wall, you know, but everything was written down. But there was no, like, conclusion, like, this is the right way and this is how we're going to talk about this from the Dharma seat. So there is this deep Faith in the ability and trust in our Buddha nature to manifest when it is given the space to do so, given the breathing room to do so. And this can be very, you know, uncomfortable if you don't have tolerance for ambiguity. And also if you have too much tolerance for ambiguity, it's very difficult, too, because you end up very confused. But, you know, our practice really has this wisdom baked into it of giving space and playing the long game. You know, Buddhism has been around over 2,500 years. Amazingly, like any old, ancient religion, it evolves and grows and adapts to the culture and society kind of slowly and in unique ways. And it's very exciting that we're part of it. So branching Streams help contextualize, you know, that we're part of this flowing river ocean of dharma across space and time, and that that happens from leaving space. And then also when the bell rings, you go to the next event. So this also was a teaching of not holding on too much to things, you know, learning how to let go and give space. And I found it. It's so relieving for me to be in a large group of people like this because I don't have to come to some conclusion. We can communicate almost in silence. You know, it was interesting when Jiryu was becoming ill, I knew he felt bad and was considering not coming, but we just kind of were passing each other and looked at each other and then kind of just sat down together and had a conversation about what it would mean if he came or didn't come. And just the fact that, you know, practicing with each other, we can harmonize and then take some space and honor what's happening, you know, And I think this is just a great model for us. And this Branching Streams is a model. But at Ancient Dragon, the way we're evolving, you know, in some ways, we're a model for other sanghas and that we can have space and we actually get stuff done. You know, we hang up new artwork, we take care of a zendo. We herded all these people back and forth and even made space so that our temple director could fly through the air and do kung fu. Beautiful dancing is what I would call it. So enough from us, please. Bodhisattvas. If you have any questions or comments or things you'd like to know about, you know, online or in person. Paul Kopp. And you need a microphone if you don't have one. Thanks. [00:38:40] Speaker E: Thanks for the recap. That was really great. I'm just wondering, is there a plan for how some of these or all of them. I don't know. These subjects that came up that were discussed might turn into action for us here, or action in the sense of things that we might talk about or things. Some of them, I think forever. I think everyone will have heard things that, you know, were discussed that are important to them. Right. And that'll be helpful for them. You know, for myself as a spouse and a parent, you know, this is very central for me, these questions. Right. And so that's just the question, what next? [00:39:18] Speaker C: I guess. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Anyone have comments on that? Yeah, if you'd like to. Yeah. Thanks, Paul. [00:39:25] Speaker D: So the nice thing about the conversation, everyone could add ideas on what they were trying to do at their different sanghas. So one thing, for example, that we are doing here, that was an idea that I was able to put forth in this sphere is the open house that we're having next Saturday. So that families that have never been here or can't find a way to plug in could just come in, see the space. We'll do a little bit of programming depending on who's in the room, and people from the community as well, who might be curious about what we're doing. They walk by, they might hear the chanting and there's like. They're like, what's going on in there? This is a way to open the doors so that people could get familiar and realize we're not at some kind of secret thing that's happening. One of the other things that was discussed though, is shortening periods of meditation and opening programming up then around. Like we've had events before where we might do some of our normal programming and children were in a different room in the kitchen or whatever doing kids activities. And then they would join us later for either a ritual or a dharma talk or both, and snacks and stuff like that. But maybe shortening that period of sitting where the children aren't there and opening up programming that's specifically geared for the children so that they're not like an add on to the event, that the event is for them and we are joining them in the event. One idea was like, for example, when we do sagaki, could we make that completely a children's event? And how would we do that? You know, and doing programming around that. Other issues about childcare, we already have online formats. So most of us agree that you have to have online format for people who are limit up with their time with childcare or with caring for aging parents or other sick individuals. But how much time do we want them to engage online with us? So Maybe it would be 20 minutes online of sitting or 15 minutes and then 15 minutes of conversation around some kind of subject or just to check in to see what they're doing. So these are some of the ideas that were put forth. Of course, the next challenge is the logistics of it. Okay, here's the. Here's what we'd like to do now. Who could facilitate that? Who could grab the reins and actually do it on a consistent basis? So it's kind of like a dog chasing its tail or a chicken and an egg thing. Do you start the programming and then eventually you have people who come to it organically that could eventually down the road become facilitators, because you don't want to do that to someone right away when you have people already doing the programming that we're doing, then if you start something, you're adding on more for what they're already doing, and you have to watch out for burnout. So this is. Once you have an idea, that's really the next challenge on how do you implement. And it's kind of a symbiotic thing. You have to open up to get more people in. And when you get more people in, then you could start more programming. And when you start more programming, more people will come up to facilitate that. Doesn't happen in a straight line. Is there anything you'd like to add? [00:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah, there is. So one of the things that Just the way in which this conference was organized, you know, I've been thinking a lot. In November of 2026 will mark the completion of our 20th year of being incorporated as a 501C3 Ancient Dragon. So I am hoping that we can take this year as a Sangha in many different formats, visioning who we are and who we might want to be for the next 10, 20 years. And so this does relate to how do we make our practice if we want to, flexible to include people who might not necessarily have time or space. For instance, with children, caregiving for parents, and also socioeconomically, you know, I made a comment saying economics are something with Zen. You know, how could you go to even go to this conference? I'm very grateful to the board of Ancient Dragon, which funded everybody's attendance at this event, but many Sanghas haven't. Amlor, did you have a comment about that? So you had a full scholarship from Branching Street? Yeah. So Onlore had a scholarship. [00:44:15] Speaker B: We can't hear you. Hougetsu. Hougetsu. You're muted. We can't hear you. We can't hear you. Hougetsu. [00:44:24] Speaker A: Okay. I'm on the mic. Won't be okay. I'm unmuting myself because we're having connectivity issues and I think people online can hear me now. Is that true? Okay. I'm sorry about that. It looks like we're. I was just talking about us doing a visioning process over the next year and utilizing some of the ideas from this conference to support that process. But I'm thinking that this might be a good time to stop unless anyone had anything burning to say. Yeah, well, how about. How about Smokey? Or should I? Is it the right time? I don't know if we're mic'd, but Anlore, if you could come up here, you could speak to the peeps online. Yeah. Need to bring my cushion off? No, we've got a cushion. We've got a seat. Onlor would like to address the sangha. [00:45:28] Speaker F: I don't know. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Even better. [00:45:33] Speaker F: I just want to let people know. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. [00:45:36] Speaker F: About my own sangha. I was at the conference too. I mean, I have four Songas, but the one I host myself is called Otsit and there is a website for it. Ot sit.net a u t s I t.net and that is a both online and in person. Mainly online sangha that is primarily for the autistic and neurodiverse people, but also friends of the allies of these communities. I mean, you know, and. Yeah, so this is kind of a good resource for many people. We have people from orbit everywhere and even other countries sometimes. And what else should I say about that? Do I forget anything Aunt use to say about the sun? [00:46:34] Speaker A: Any questions about. I think ot a u t s I t omnioson whimsiness today. What time today? [00:46:45] Speaker F: But you know, people can join it today because I send the zoom link ahead of time and I am not gonna have time to send more zoom links out on one on one. So more like the one after that, which is the first Sunday of every month, is more zoom. So it's monthly three times a month? [00:47:09] Speaker A: Three times. [00:47:09] Speaker F: Plus one of them being in person. And also we have an in person retreat once a year or two because those are so difficult to organize. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Great. Thank you for sharing that. And this is a great joy of this conference to broaden our learning and our efforts to offer the Dharma and to see where we don't do a good job in some places for some people. Not that you can please all the people all the time, but we can learn to open and grow and so onur. It's really wonderful. That you're here with us. Well, thank you. Thank you. [00:47:54] Speaker F: And I forgot to. [00:47:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, bow. Internal bows. So given our techno situation and also our time, maybe this is a good time for us to end with. I want to thank everyone for your contributions and we can continue this process. [00:48:17] Speaker G: So these are numberless, we vow to free. Delusions are inexhaustible, we vow to cut through them. Dharma gays are boundless, we vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable, we vow to realize it. Being thou numberless, we vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible, we vow to cut through. Narrates are boundless, we vow to them. Buddha does ways of the gospel. We vow to realize that things are numberless, we vow to freedom. Delusions are inexhaustible, we vow to cut through them far the gates are boundless, we vow to enter them to God's ways. Unsurpassable, we vow to realize it. [00:49:47] Speaker A: And Wade, I don't know if you want to look at the screen here to do some announcements as the Eno and I have the. I have everything pulled up here for you too. You can just scroll here. [00:50:00] Speaker F: Oh, do you want to sit down? [00:50:03] Speaker H: Right, so just a couple quick announcements. This coming Monday, tomorrow evening, 7:30, we're having discussion, a practice discussion led by Lou, one of our Sangha members. Then we have our regular programming for the rest of the week. Wednesday evening is an hour set. And then in the morning, every morning online. This coming Saturday, as alluded to by our director, is the open house that goes from 11:30am to 1:30pm Saturday. Do you feel like we've said enough about that? [00:50:40] Speaker A: Does anyone have any questions? Okay. [00:50:43] Speaker H: I think it's a cool new offering. I'm looking forward to it. [00:50:46] Speaker A: The house will be open. The house will be open. We'll see what happens. [00:50:50] Speaker H: And then the day after that, On Sunday the 28th, again, Paula is leading a half day sitting. So especially if you've never done a longer sit, this would be a wonderful introduction to that and a great offering. Otherwise, our website is open for business 247 and all of our events are on there. So thank you. [00:51:14] Speaker A: I'll just say a couple things. There will be a Precepts class beginning October 2nd. In the evening, a six session class opening up the precepts that I will be offering. It's online only and anyone and everyone is invited. I'm trying to do this every year and do it a little differently every year. And we will also be having a lot going on in October. So Ben Connolly will be here and do a half day workshop retreat and Stephane Liko will be here offering a talk on a Sunday, I think the 12th maybe about the evolution of the Zen precepts and Soto Zen as a scholar talk. So there are just a lot of things happening at the Dragon, including two new meditation and recovery groups that we're offering to the public. So now we have three. We have one called Independent Recovery online only on Tuesday nights. On Wednesday evenings we have Meditation and Recovery with Mark Splitt. And on Friday evenings we have Meditation and Recovery in person only with our director. So there's a lot happening here and it's really due to everyone's great effort, practice and generosity. We'll make announcements in our newsletter and in other places about our successful summer new member campaign, but we just knocked it out of the park. Okay people, we got a bunch of more new members than we had hoped and everybody contributed generously and even raised their current monthly support. So I think this speaks to the wonder of the Dragon. So thank you everyone very much and then we will rise and have work, period and tea. And thank you to all the online people. Teigen has a hand up. Teigen Bodhisattva, please unmute. [00:53:20] Speaker B: Thank you. Yes, I just wanted to mention that next Saturday after the open house at Ancient Dragon, from 3 to 6pm Our time, I will be doing a part of a series on the Bodhisattva archetypes through San Francisco Zen center on Samantha Badra and Avalokiteshvara. So that's next Saturday, 3 to 6pm Chicago time. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Great. Thank you, Teigen. So you look at San Francisco Zen Center's website for that. I think we may also have a link on ours. But also Teigen will also be doing a seminar later in October too. A follow up, I think, to the awesome presence of Active Buddhas, which seems to really be relevant to us. So on that note, thank you everyone and we will move to the next event. Goodbye, Cloud Lings.