Huayan and Zen Precepts

[00:00:00] Speaker A: For. [00:00:00] Speaker B: More. Information. On. Ancient. Dragon. Zen. Gate. Please. [00:00:03] Speaker A: Visit. Our. Website. [00:00:04] Speaker B: At. [00:00:05] Speaker A: Www. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Dot. Ancientdragon. [00:00:07] Speaker A: Dot. [00:00:07] Speaker B: Org. [00:00:08] Speaker A: Our. [00:00:08] Speaker B: Teachings. Are. Offered. To. [00:00:09] Speaker A: The. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Community. [00:00:10] Speaker A: Through. [00:00:10] Speaker B: The. Generosity. [00:00:11] Speaker C: Of. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Our. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Supporters. To. Make. A. Donation. [00:00:13] Speaker A: Online. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Please. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Visit. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Our. Website. So. I. Just. [00:00:17] Speaker A: Want. [00:00:17] Speaker C: To. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Welcome. People. [00:00:17] Speaker A: I. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Haven't. Seen. For. A. While. Over. There. In. The. Corner. And. Our. Henness. [00:00:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And. [00:00:26] Speaker C: And. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Lauren. I. Remembered. Circled. Back. And. I. Think. Everyone. Else. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Has. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Been. Hanging. Around. For. A. While. I. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Want. To. [00:00:40] Speaker B: Remind. Everyone. That. Next. Week. Is. Our. Sajiki. Ceremony. So. At. This. Time. We. Will. Have. The. Great. Ceremony. Of. Welcoming. Unsettled. Spirits. Offering. Them. Nourishing. Dharma. And. Awakening. And. Even. Some. Food. So. You're. Welcome. To. [00:01:02] Speaker A: Come. [00:01:03] Speaker B: For. That. In. Costume. If. You'd. Like. [00:01:06] Speaker A: If. [00:01:06] Speaker B: You. Have. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Someone. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Who. You've. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Lost. [00:01:08] Speaker B: So. Sajiki. Is. In. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Part. [00:01:11] Speaker B: A. Memorial. Service. So. If. You've. Someone. Close. To. [00:01:14] Speaker C: You. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Who. [00:01:15] Speaker B: You've. Lost. In. The. Past. Year. Or. So. Roughly. Please. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Send. [00:01:19] Speaker B: A. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Name. [00:01:20] Speaker B: If. You'd. Like. It. Read. During. The. Ceremonies. Because. We. Will. Read. Names. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Of. [00:01:24] Speaker B: The. Deceased. During. The. Ceremony. And. [00:01:27] Speaker A: You're. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Also. Welcome. To. Bring. Any. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Food. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Which. We. Can. Consume. Afterwards. But. Also. Offer. To. The. Spirits. Who. Mysteriously. Partake. Voraciously. But. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Everything. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Is. Left. Untouched. So. [00:01:41] Speaker A: It's. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Pretty. Good. And. Without. Further. Ado. It's. A. Great. Pleasure. [00:01:46] Speaker A: To. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Have. With. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Us. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Our. Founding. Guiding. Teacher. Now. Guiding. Teacher. Emeritus. Who. Is. Going. To. Speak. With. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Us. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Today. And. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Let. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Me. Give. You. [00:01:59] Speaker A: This. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Microphone. The. World. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Can. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Hear. You. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Okay. Can. You. Hear. Me. Okay. So. And. Hi. Everyone. Online. So. I. Want. To. Speak. Today. About. The. Teachings. From. Last. Weekend. So. Saturday. Last. Saturday. A. Week. Ago. Yesterday. Ben. Connolly. Was. Here. And. Gave. A. Seminar. On. Hua. Yan. And. So. [00:02:34] Speaker B: I. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Want. To. Talk. About. That. Some. And. Then. Sunday. Steven. Laika. From. University. Of. Chicago. Was. Here. And. Talked. About. The. Evolution. Of. Soto. Zen. Precepts. I. Want. To. Talk. About. That. Some. Too. So. Huayan. Is. The. School. Of. Chinese. Buddhism. That. Comes. From. The. Flower. Ornament. Or. Avatamsaka. Sutra. And. It's. Kegon. In. Japanese. And. So. The. [00:03:00] Speaker C: Hua. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yan. School. Is. Very. Important. And. Important. To. Soto. Zen. And. Important. To. All. Of. East. Asian. Buddhism. Ben. Talked. About. Three. Chapters. Particularly. The. Chapter. On. Purifying. Practice. Which. Has. Various. Everyday. Life. Ghatas. And. How. To. Help. Beings. Arouse. The. Vow. In. Situations. Of. Our. Everyday. Activity. And. Then. He. Also. Talked. About. The. Ten. Bhumis. The. Ten. Stages. Or. Ten. Ground. Sutra. Which. Is. [00:03:36] Speaker C: An. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Independent. Sutra. Which. Is. [00:03:39] Speaker C: One. [00:03:39] Speaker A: Of. The. Chapters. In. The. Flower. Ornament. Sutra. And. Then. He. Talked. About. [00:03:45] Speaker B: The. [00:03:45] Speaker A: Gandhi. Viuha. Sutra. The. Entry. Into. The. Realm. Of. Reality. So. This. Sutra. This. Vast. Sutra. It's. What. Sixteen. Hundred. Pages. And. Tom. Cleary's. Translation. There's. Starting. To. Be. Other. Translations. But. Of. Parts. Of. It. Anyway. This. Is. A. Very. Flowery. As. The. Name. Says. But. Also. Psychedelic. Sutra. Filled. With. Names. Of. Different. Samadhis. Different. Buddhas. And. Bodhisattvas. Pages. And. Pages. And. Pages. Of. Names. Of. Different. Bodhisattvas. And. Various. Ornaments. Parasols. [00:04:27] Speaker C: And. [00:04:27] Speaker A: Garlands. And. Jewels. And. Flowering. Trees. And. So. Forth. It's. Just. It's. Replete. With. These. Flowery. Events. But. The. Gandavyuha. Sutras. Is. About. A. Pilgrim. Named. Sudana. A. Young. Boy. Who. Goes. On. Pilgrimage. To. Fifty. Three. Different. Bodhisattvas. And. These. Different. Bodhisattvas. Include. Men. And. Women. Monks. And. Priests. And. Lay. People. Mariners. Incense. Makers. Goddesses. And. Anyway. It's. It's. [00:05:10] Speaker C: Each. [00:05:11] Speaker A: One. Presents. Some. Amazing. Teaching. Some. Very. Lofty. Teaching. And. Then. Ends. Up. Saying. But. I. Don't. Really. Know. How. To. Fully. Express. The. Bodhisattva. Teachings. So. Please. Go. See. So. And. So. Who's. To. The. South. And. So. Sudhana. Continues. On. His. Pilgrimage. And. Eventually. Sees. Manjushri. Who. Sort. Of. Started. Him. On. The. Pilgrimage. And. Samantha. Badra. The. Great. Bodhisattva. So. Samantha. Manjushree. Rides. A. Lion. Samantha. Bhajra. Rides. An. Elephant. And. Has. A. Set. Of. Ten. Vows. Which. Are. Fully. Expressed. There. And. Then. He. Goes. To. Maitreya. The. Next. Future. Buddha. And. Maitreya's. Castles. And. Palaces. Each. Of. Which. Is. Vast. And. Huge. And. Contains. All. Many. Other. Castles. And. Palaces. And. It's. It's. And. Each. One. Of. Them. Is. Complete. With. Various. Samantha. Bhajra. Bodhisattvas. And. And. It. Can. And. Includes. All. The. Others. So. It's. This. Amazing. As. I. Say. Psychedelic. Sutra. That. Sudana. Goes. On. And. Talking. About. The. Huayan. School. And. Huayan. Buddhism. Ben. Emphasized. Very. Much. That. This. Sutra. Emphasizes. The. Phenomenal. World. The. Particulars. Of. Our. Life. And. Taking. Care. Of. Them. Taking. Care. Of. All. Of. The. Different. [00:06:52] Speaker C: Particular. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Phenomena. We're. Doing. A. Reading. Of. The. Flower. Ornament. Sutra. The. First. Friday. Evening. Of. Every. Month. We've. Been. Doing. It. For. Several. Years. Everyone's. Welcome. And. You. Don't. Have. You. Can. Read. And. There's. A. PDF. Provided. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Or. [00:07:11] Speaker A: You. Can. Just. Listen. But. We're. Doing. That. Every. Friday. Evening. From. Seven. To. Eight. Thirty. Friday. Evening. The. First. Friday. Evening. Of. Every. Month. So. Please. Feel. Free. To. Join. Us. And. Enjoy. This. Wonderful. Sutra. That. Emphasizes. Again. It. Talks. About. The. Interaction. Of. The. Phenomenal. Or. Particular. With. Universal. Truth. But. Yet. It. Emphasizes. Taking. Care. Of. Each. Particular. Thing. Each. Phenomenal. Thing. And. Ben. Mentioned. That. He. Was. Encouraged. His. Book. Is. Based. On. A. Sutra. Or. A. Verse. Thirty. Verses. That's. Used. In. Korea. Where. The. Y. N. Sutra. Is. Very. Popular. And. So. He. Organized. His. Book. Around. These. These. Thirty. Verses. And. This. Was. Introduced. To. Him. By. A. Teacher. Named. Jin. Park. A. Scholar. Named. Jin. Park. And. She's. Korean. And. Very. Involved. In. Huayan. School. And. She. Recently. Had. [00:08:28] Speaker B: A. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Conference. Of. Academic. Scholars. Of. East. Asian. Buddhism. From. All. The. Different. Schools. Pure. Land. School. Nichiren. School. Soto. Zen. Of. Course. Jodo. Hsu. They. All. Ended. Up. Agreeing. That. Hawaiian. Teaching. Is. Foundational. To. All. All. Of. East. Asian. Buddhism. So. It's. Very. Important. The. Hawaiian. School. Has. A. Very. Different. Kind. Of. Discourse. Than. The. Flower. Ornament. Sutra. Which. Is. This. Flowery. Evocative. Psychedelics. Text. The. Huayan. School. Is. [00:09:09] Speaker B: In. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Some. Ways. More. Analytic. Or. More. It's. Not. The. Right. Word. More. Talking. About. Talks. About. Tens. Various. Kinds. Of. Tens. Like. [00:09:21] Speaker B: The. [00:09:21] Speaker A: Ten. Times. The. Ten. Times. Are. The. Past. Present. And. Future. Of. The. Past. And. The. Past. Present. And. Future. Of. The. Future. And. The. Past. Present. And. [00:09:31] Speaker C: Future. [00:09:31] Speaker A: Of. The. Present. And. Then. All. Nine. Of. Those. Together. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Is. [00:09:34] Speaker A: The. Tenth. Anyway. But. There. Are. Many. Many. Many. Tens. In. This. Sutra. And. Again. It. Emphasizes. The. Particular. The. Phenomenal. World. Our. World. This. World. Although. In. The. Sutra. [00:09:52] Speaker C: There. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Are. Innumerable. Other. Worlds. That. Are. Invoked. And. That. Appear. [00:09:57] Speaker B: And. [00:09:58] Speaker A: So. But. In. Terms. Of. Soto. Zen. This. Hawaiian. School. Is. Very. Important. My. Teacher. Reb. Anderson. Talks. About. Dongshan. The. Founder. Of. Chinese. School. Of. Soto. Zen. Called. Sao. Jong. As. The. Sixth. Ancestor. Of. Huayan. So. The. Huayan. Teaching. Is. Continued. In. Dongshan's. Teaching. And. Particularly. There's. Teaching. Called. The. Fourfold. Dharma. Datu. In. Huayan. There's. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Many. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Other. Teachings. But. This. Fourfold. Dharma. Dhatu. Is. Important. To. Us. Because. It. Is. A. Background. For. The. Five. Degrees. Or. Five. Ranks. Which. Is. A. Teaching. Of. Dongshan. And. Soto. Zen. So. [00:10:48] Speaker C: The. [00:10:48] Speaker A: Fourfold. Dharma. Dhatu. Is. The. Particulars. Of. The. Phenomenal. World. The. Ultimate. Or. Universal. Truth. The. Mutual. Non. Obstruction. Of. The. Ultimate. And. The. Universal. Universal. So. The. Ultimate. And. The. Excuse. Me. The. Universal. And. The. Particulars. So. The. Universal. Reality. Universal. Truth. Only. Appears. In. The. Phenomenal. World. Through. Phenomena. And. Phenomena. Each. Phenomena. Completely. Completely. Reflects. The. Ultimate. Truth. But. So. They. Don't. Obstruct. Each. Other. The. Particular. And. The. Universal. And. They. Have. This. Mutuality. Between. Them. And. Then. The. Fourth. Dharmadhatu. Is. The. Mutual. Non. Obstruction. Of. Particulars. With. Other. Particulars. Which. Is. Kind. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Of. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Cool. And. The. Sutra. Is. About. Everything. In. The. Universe. Is. Completely. Present. In. Everything. Else. So. Everything. That. You've. Ever. Seen. Or. Done. Or. Been. Or. Whatever. All. The. People. You've. Met. All. The. People. You. You. Don't. Remember. That. You've. Met. Are. Part. [00:12:07] Speaker C: Of. [00:12:08] Speaker A: What. You. Are. Sitting. Here. Now. Everything. Everything. [00:12:11] Speaker C: In. [00:12:11] Speaker A: That. Entire. Universe. Is. Part. Of. Who. And. How. You. [00:12:17] Speaker C: Are. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Right. Now. And. Each. Thing. Interacts. With. Each. Other. Thing. Based. On. That. Everything. In. The. Universe. Is. Completely. Connected. With. Everything. Else. So. Particulars. Reflect. Each. Other. Particulars. Don't. Obstruct. Each. Other. This. Is. Difficult. For. Us. To. See. In. Our. Time. Because. Of. The. Difficulties. Of. Our. Time. And. Ice. Agents. Gathering. Up. People. And. So. Forth. And. So. Some. Of. You. Were. I. [00:12:54] Speaker C: Know. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Were. At. The. No. Kings. Rallies. Yesterday. And. Ben. Talked. About. The. Application. Of. This. Huayin. Teaching. To. Our. World. And. To. Engaged. Buddhism. So. Each. Thing. Includes. Everything. Else. In. Some. Real. Way. Again. This. Is. Hard. To. See. When. There. Is. When. Our. Country. Is. So. Divided. And. There's. So. Much. [00:13:21] Speaker B: Contention. [00:13:21] Speaker A: And. Maybe. There. Was. Unity. Yesterday. And. People. From. All. Over. The. Country. Appearing. At. The. No. Kings. Marches. But. Particularly. Then. Spoke. About. His. Own. Practice. In. Minnesota. And. He. Lives. Not. Far. From. The. Place. Where. George. Floyd. Was. Killed. And. How. There. Are. Gatherings. Of. People. At. That. Spot. And. Many. People. Many. Beings. And. Many. Groups. Come. To. The. Spot. Where. [00:13:59] Speaker C: George. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Floyd. Was. Killed. And. Celebrate. There. It. Was. Very. Angry. At. First. And. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Now. [00:14:08] Speaker A: It's. More. Celebratory. Maybe. It's. A. Little. Strong. But. Yeah. There. Are. People. Who. Are. Working. In. Various. Ways. To. Help. Beings. And. So. Ben. Talked. About. This. In. Terms. Of. Hua. In. Terms. Of. How. Everything. Is. Connected. Together. And. So. How. Do. We. How. Do. We. See. This. In. Our. Lives. In. Our. World. Where. Each. Of. Us. Includes. Everything. Else. And. Everything. Else. Includes. Each. Of. Us. And. Vice. Versa. And. Backwards. And. Forwards. So. Yeah. It's. It's. [00:14:53] Speaker C: A. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Way. Of. Seeing. How. Beings. Can. Be. Together. And. Being. To. Interact. With. Each. Other. In. Time. As. Well. As. In. Space. So. The. Ten. Times. You. Know. Dogen. Has. This. Teaching. Of. Being. Time. Where. There's. No. Time. As. Some. External. Exact. Phenomena. Time. Is. Our. Presence. Our. Being. Of. Time. We. Each. Are. Time. And. We. Each. Have. [00:15:22] Speaker B: A. [00:15:22] Speaker A: Presence. Of. In. Time. Of. Time. So. Yeah. How. Do. We. See. This. Time. Connected. To. The. Time. Of. Slavery. The. Time. Of. Reconstruction. [00:15:37] Speaker B: The. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Time. Of. The. [00:15:38] Speaker C: Civil. [00:15:38] Speaker A: Rights. Movement. For. Example. How. Do. We. See. This. Time. Connected. To. Our. Ancestors. Ten. Thousand. Years. Ago. In. Caves. Well. Maybe. It's. Fifty. Thousand. A. Hundred. Thousand. Years. Ago. In. Caves. And. Then. Civilization. Started. But. Also. In. [00:15:58] Speaker B: The. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Future. So. We. Are. Practicing. Here. Now. For. The. Sake. Of. [00:16:06] Speaker C: The. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Future. We. Continue. Buddha. Buddha. Is. Here. Buddha. Is. On. Your. Seat. Buddha. Ness. Is. The. Way. Things. Is. And. How. [00:16:18] Speaker B: Do. [00:16:18] Speaker A: We. Continue. This. So. That. Somebody. Walking. By. [00:16:21] Speaker C: Here. [00:16:22] Speaker A: In. Fifty. Years. Or. One. Hundred. Years. Will. Experience. Ancient. Dragon. Or. Maybe. By. Then. We'll. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Be. [00:16:31] Speaker A: In. Some. Other. Building. But. How. Do. We. Take. Care. Of. People. Beings. Five. Hundred. Years. From. Now. [00:16:39] Speaker B: A. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Thousand. Years. From. Now. Ten. Thousand. Years. From. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Now. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Will. There. Be. People. Five. Hundred. Years. From. [00:16:45] Speaker B: Now. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Well. There. [00:16:46] Speaker C: Will. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Be. People. But. Maybe. They'll. Be. Back. [00:16:48] Speaker C: In. [00:16:48] Speaker A: Caves. We. Don't. Know. Climate. Is. The. Climate. Is. Changing. So. Anyway. All. Of. This. Is. About. How. [00:16:56] Speaker C: We. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Are. Connected. And. How. We. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Have. [00:16:59] Speaker A: A. Responsibility. To. Take. Care. Of. Things. Because. Everything. Is. [00:17:04] Speaker C: Part. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Of. Who. We. Are. And. [00:17:06] Speaker C: Who. [00:17:06] Speaker A: We. Are. Is. Part. Of. Everything. And. Interacts. With. Everything. So. How. Do. We. Take. Care. Of. All. [00:17:13] Speaker B: The. [00:17:14] Speaker A: People. And. The. Sirens. Going. By. And. The. People. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Who. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Need. [00:17:18] Speaker A: An. Ambulance. Or. Whatever. So. In. Space. How. Do. We. Take. Care. Of. The. People. In. Gaza. Who. Are. Still. Being. Attacked. [00:17:28] Speaker C: By. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Israeli. Soldiers. How. Do. We. Take. Care. Of. [00:17:30] Speaker C: The. [00:17:30] Speaker A: People. In. Israel. Who've. Had. Hostages. Returned. Anyway. We. Are. Responsible. For. Of. Course. Chicago. And. Of. Course. Our. Sangha. Taking. Care. Of. Our. Sangha. So. Each. Of. Us. Has. A. Particular. Position. In. The. Sangha. Particular. Position. In. The. Mandala. Of. How. We. Are. [00:17:51] Speaker C: Today. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Whether. It's. Online. Or. Here. In. The. Zendo. And. We. Have. Various. Jobs. And. Positions. And. So. We're. Taking. Care. Of. Things. [00:18:01] Speaker B: We. [00:18:01] Speaker A: Take. Care. Of. This. Space. And. We. Take. Care. Of. The. Space. Of. Our. Neighborhoods. As. Best. We. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Can. [00:18:08] Speaker A: And. So. Forth. So. Anyway. That's. A. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Little. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Bit. About. Hua. Yin. [00:18:13] Speaker B: And. [00:18:13] Speaker A: How. It. Applies. To. This. World. And. Engaged. Buddhism. I. Want. To. Shift. Now. To. Talk. About. The. Precepts. As. Stefan. Leike. Talked. About. Last. Sunday. He. Talked. About. The. History. Of. Soto. Zen. Precepts. So. Maybe. Many. Of. You. Know. That. We. Have. Sixteen. Bodhisattva. Precepts. In. Soto. Zen. The. Three. Refuges. The. Three. Pure. Precepts. Doing. Good. Well. Translated. In. Various. Ways. Doing. Good. Not. Doing. Evil. Benefiting. All. Beings. And. Then. There's. Ten. Grave. Precepts. And. These. Precepts. Come. They. Were. They. Were. Initiated. As. A. System. Of. Sixteen. By. Dogen. [00:18:57] Speaker C: Who. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Came. Who. Was. A. Monk. In. The. Thirteenth. Century. The. Founder. Of. Japanese. Soto. Zen. And. Went. To. China. And. Brought. Back. The. Soto. Zen. Lineage. Going. Back. To. Dongshan. And. And. Huinang. And. Before. Him. And. Shito. And. Hong. And. So. Forth. Anyway. Dogen. Put. Together. These. Sixteen. Precepts. But. They. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Come. [00:19:25] Speaker A: Out. Of. The. Tendai. Precepts. So. Stefan. Talked. [00:19:28] Speaker B: At. [00:19:29] Speaker A: Great. Length. About. The. Various. Incarnations. Of. Precepts. Yeah. With. The. So. Called. Theravada. Precepts. The. Monastic. Precepts. But. In. And. [00:19:44] Speaker B: Then. [00:19:44] Speaker A: There. [00:19:44] Speaker B: Were. The. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Bodhisattva. Precepts. Which. Saicho. Developed. But. They. Those. Come. From. A. Sutra. That. Was. Popular. In. China. Called. The. Brahma. Jala. Sutra. Kyo. In. Japanese. There. Will. Not. Be. A. Test. But. [00:20:03] Speaker C: The. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Brahmajala. Sutra. Has. Ten. Major. Precepts. Which. Are. Our. Ten. Precepts. Ten. Grave. Precepts. And. Then. Forty. Eight. Minor. Precepts. Which. Somehow. Disappeared. In. Dogon. Sixteen. However. When. I. Did. [00:20:23] Speaker B: A. [00:20:23] Speaker A: Practice. Period. In. Japan. At. Shogoji. Temple. And. Narasaki. Iko. Roshi. Who. Was. The. Abbot. Then. Did. What. We. Call. The. Full. Moon. Ceremony. The. Bodhisattva. Precept. Ceremony. Which. I. Think. Is. [00:20:38] Speaker C: Being. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Done. Wednesday. Evenings. Here. Sometimes. Once. A. Month. Yeah. Near. [00:20:45] Speaker C: The. [00:20:45] Speaker A: Full. Moon. Near. [00:20:45] Speaker B: The. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Full. Moon. And. In. Japan. They. Do. It. On. The. Full. Moon. And. The. New. Moon. They. Do. It. Twice. A. Month. In. Japan. And. China. They. Do. Too. Well. [00:20:55] Speaker C: I. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Don't. I. I. Won't. Speak. For. Every. Place. In. Japan. But. At. Least. At. This. Temple. They. Did. It. Full. Moon. And. New. Moon. And. Narasakhi. Ikaroshi. Recited. The. Forty. Eight. Minor. Precepts. From. The. Brahmanjala. Sutra. As. Well. As. The. Ten. Precepts. And. From. Our. Sixteen. Precepts. So. Anyway. There's. [00:21:15] Speaker C: A. [00:21:15] Speaker A: Long. History. Of. Precepts. And. So. The. Ten. Precepts. Can. Be. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Seen. [00:21:22] Speaker A: As. Ethical. Guidelines. Not. Killing. Is. The. First. One. That. There. Is. No. Killing. A. Buddha. Is. Awakened. To. Non. Killing. And. Then. There's. Not. Stealing. Not. Lying. Not. Misusing. Sexuality. Not. Intoxicating. Mind. And. Body. Of. Self. [00:21:43] Speaker C: Or. [00:21:43] Speaker A: Others. Not. Praising. Self. [00:21:45] Speaker C: At. The. [00:21:45] Speaker A: Expense. Of. Others. Not. Slandering. Others. Not. Being. Possessive. Of. Anything. Not. Getting. Angry. Or. Holding. On. To. Anger. And. Then. Just. Not. Disparaging. [00:21:57] Speaker B: The. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Three. Treasures. And. The. Precepts. The. Three. Treasures. Of. Buddha. Dharma. Sangha. Anyway. Those. Are. The. Ten. But. I. Want. To. Talk. A. [00:22:07] Speaker C: Little. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Bit. About. One. Soto. Understanding. Of. These. Precepts. Which. Is. That. They're. Non. Dual. So. It's. Not. Thou. Shalt. Not. Kill. It's. Not. Like. A. Commandment. Or. A. Statement. To. Not. Kill. It's. In. Disciple. Disciple. Of. Buddha. Realizes. That. Buddha. Is. Not. Killed. Is. Non. Killing. Is. Is. I'm. Paraphrasing. Dogen's. Kyoju. Kaimon. His. His. Writings. On. These. These. These. Ten. Precepts. [00:22:42] Speaker C: But. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Just. To. Let's. Just. To. Take. Not. Killing. [00:22:46] Speaker C: And. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Work. [00:22:46] Speaker C: With. [00:22:46] Speaker A: That. A. Little. Bit. So. In. In. The. Non. Dual. Way. Of. Understanding. Precepts. Which. I'm. Not. Supposed. [00:22:56] Speaker B: To. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Talk. About. With. With. You. Know. People. [00:22:59] Speaker C: Who. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Are. Not. Transmitted. And. And. And. Providing. The. Precepts. But. I'm. [00:23:06] Speaker C: Going. [00:23:06] Speaker A: To. Anyway. That. Killing. And. Not. Killing. Life. Is. Not. Killed. Killing. And. Not. Killing. Are. Both. Violations. Of. That. Precept. From. This. Non. Dual. Perspective. Both. Killing. And. Not. Killing. Violate. The. Precepts. When. We. Think. About. Killing. It's. Vast. Actually. Killing. Well. You. Know. Killing. Could. Include. [00:23:35] Speaker B: How. [00:23:36] Speaker A: We. Each. So. We. Serve. Vegetarian. Food. Here. And. Vegan. Food. Even. And. Yet. Vegetables. Also. Sacrifice. Their. Lives. Asparagus. Is. Killed. Before. We. [00:23:54] Speaker B: Can. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Eat. It. And. We. Don't. Asparagus. And. Broccoli. And. Lettuce. They. Don't. Scream. As. Loud. When. They're. Pulled. As. Chickens. And. Cows. And. You. Know. It's. Been. Scientifically. Shown. That. Trees. When. They. Are. Cut. Down. There. Is. A. Sound. Actually. We. Can't. Hear. It. But. At. [00:24:20] Speaker B: Any. [00:24:20] Speaker A: Rate. So. Not. Killing. Is. Complicated. Where. Do. We. Draw. The. Line. We. Need. To. Nourish. Ourselves. So. Both. Killing. And. Not. Killing. Violate. The. Precept. But. The. Precept. Is. That. The. Life. Of. In. [00:24:36] Speaker C: The. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Life. Of. Buddha. Non. Killing. So. [00:24:40] Speaker B: How. [00:24:40] Speaker A: Do. We. How. Do. So. This. [00:24:41] Speaker C: I'm. [00:24:42] Speaker A: I'm. Using. This. Precept. As. An. Example. How. Do. We. Live. And. Practice. With. The. Precept. Of. Not. Killing. Which. Is. A. Question. How. Do. We. Question. Our. Killing. Do. We. Kill. Spiders. Do. We. Do. We. [00:25:01] Speaker C: Eat. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Chickens. Or. Meat. What. Is. Killing. What. Is. Not. Killing. How. Do. We. Live. In. The. Question. Of. Living. In. The. Realm. Of. Birth. And. Death. Without. Trying. To. Fix. It. So. There's. Birth. And. Death. And. Birth. Requires. Death. And. Death. Requires. Birth. And. There's. This. Cycle. Of. Beings. Being. Born. [00:25:36] Speaker B: And. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Dying. How. Do. We. Live. With. This. Reality. Without. Trying. To. Fix. Something. How. Do. We. Question. It. How. [00:25:45] Speaker B: Do. [00:25:45] Speaker A: We. Question. Our. Own. Activities. So. All. Of. The. Precepts. Are. Like. This. Not. Stealing. Not. Lying. Not. Misusing. Sexuality. But. How. Do. We. Appreciate. The. Complexity. Of. This. So. This. Is. So. I'm. Just. Taking. Off. From. What. Stefan. Talked. About. Last. Week. To. Talk. About. These. Precepts. As. Non. Dual. And. Again. Bodhisattvas. Live. In. The. Realm. Of. Birth. And. Death. Without. Trying. To. Fix. It. Without. Trying. To. Change. It. Because. There. Is. Birth. There. Is. Death. And. They. Require. Each. Other. And. Our. Life. Is. You. Know. There. Are. Various. Aged. People. In. This. Room. Now. Maybe. Most. Younger. Than. I. Am. But. At. Some. Point. It's. Very. Very. [00:26:45] Speaker C: Very. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Very. Likely. That. All. Of. Us. Will. Die. At. Some. Point. And. Yet. Also. Other. Beings. Will. Be. Born. And. So. This. Cycle. Of. Death. And. Birth. Continues. And. We. Don't. Want. [00:26:58] Speaker B: To. [00:26:58] Speaker A: Talk. About. It. We. Don't. Want. To. Hear. About. It. It's. Difficult. To. Talk. About. Difficult. To. Hear. But. At. The. Same. Time. How. Do. We. Take. Care. Of. This. Of. These. Precepts. About. Birth. And. [00:27:13] Speaker C: Death. [00:27:14] Speaker A: So. I'm. Just. Going. [00:27:15] Speaker C: To. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Close. By. Reading. A. [00:27:16] Speaker C: Little. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Bit. From. Rabbi. Anderson's. Book. On. The. Precepts. Being. Upright. Talking. About. Not. Killing. [00:27:24] Speaker C: We. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Cannot. See. The. Ultimate. Truth. There. Isn't. Really. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Any. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Dust. To. Wipe. Away. And. Ultimate. Truth. If. You. Try. To. Kill. Ignorance. Then. [00:27:36] Speaker C: You. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Will. Kill. The. Actual. Life. Of. Your. Body. And. Mind. So. [00:27:40] Speaker B: We. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Have. This. Ignorance. We. Have. The. Capacity. To. Ignore. Life. [00:27:45] Speaker B: And. [00:27:45] Speaker A: Death. If. You. Face. Your. Pain. And. Ignorance. Uprightly. Tenderly. And. Respectfully. Then. The. Truth. Will. Be. Revealed. Thus. The. Precept. Of. Not. Killing. Life. Comes. Alive. In. Formal. Meditation. So. When. We're. Sitting. We're. Sitting. In. Life. And. Death. And. We're. Questioning. Life. [00:28:07] Speaker B: And. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Death. Or. Maybe. We're. Not. But. It's. There. [00:28:10] Speaker B: As. [00:28:11] Speaker A: A. [00:28:11] Speaker C: Question. [00:28:13] Speaker A: When. When. You. Face. Your. Pain. [00:28:16] Speaker C: And. [00:28:16] Speaker A: Your. Ignorance. And. You're. Sitting. Uprightly. Tenderly. And. Respectfully. Then. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Reality. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Is. Realized. So. Reb. Also. Says. The. Mind. That. Realizes. Action. In. Concert. With. All. Life. Has. Gone. Beyond. Self. Centered. Actions. The. Mind. That. Realizes. Action. [00:28:41] Speaker B: In. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Concert. With. All. Life. Not. Killing. Life. Is. The. Concerted. Activity. Of. All. Beings. It. Is. The. Celebration. Of. All. Life. Working. Together. In. Harmony. With. The. Entire. Universe. So. This. Huayan. Teaching. Of. Everything. Being. Totally. Connected. Is. That. Everything. Is. In. Concert. With. The. Entire. Universe. In. Harmony. [00:29:07] Speaker C: With. [00:29:07] Speaker A: The. Entire. Universe. When. We. Celebrate. All. Life. Working. Together. Somehow. Even. The. Ice. Agents. Are. Part. Of. This. As. Difficult. As. That. May. Be. To. Imagine. All. Of. This. Is. In. Concert. In. Harmony. Together. So. [00:29:26] Speaker C: Reb. [00:29:27] Speaker A: Also. Says. The. Ancient. Buddhas. Realized. That. The. Principle. Of. Life. Cannot. Be. Destroyed. In. Other. Words. Killing. Cannot. Be. Established. In. The. Fullness. Of. Life. In. The. Fullness. Of. Life. How. Can. There. Be. Killing. How. [00:29:45] Speaker C: Can. [00:29:45] Speaker A: There. Be. Not. Killing. The. Fullness. Of. Life. Is. Realized. In. Supporting. And. Appreciating. All. Other. Beings. And. In. Understanding. That. We. Are. Fully. Supported. And. Appreciated. By. All. Life. Each. Right. Now. Each. Of. Us. Is. Fully. Supported. And. Appreciated. By. Everything. By. All. Life. By. Everything. We're. Not. Everything. We. Are. Each. Other. Of. Course. So. We're. Supported. [00:30:16] Speaker B: By. [00:30:17] Speaker A: All. Life. And. [00:30:19] Speaker C: Then. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Reb. Quotes. Yuan. Wu. Who. Is. The. Guy. Who. Wrote. The. Blue. Cliff. Record. Commentary. Who. Said. That. Life. Is. The. Manifestation. Of. The. Whole. Works. The. Whole. Works. Is. Total. Dynamic. Activity. That's. Actually. Reb's. Name. Tsenki. Death. Is. The. Manifestation. Of. The. Whole. Works. Life. And. Death. Are. Both. The. Manifestation. Of. The. [00:30:43] Speaker C: Whole. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Works. Filling. Up. The. Great. Empty. Sky. Upright. Mind. Is. Always. Bits. And. Pieces. So. Our. Upright. Mind. Sees. The. Interaction. Of. Life. And. Death. And. How. Life. And. Death. Is. Not. Killed. But. Is. You. Know. We're. Just. Bits. And. Pieces. Of. That. We. Are. Here. Together. Connected. Together. As. All. Being. So. I. There's. Some. Time. For. Comments. Questions. Responses. Whatever. Please. Feel. Free. Yes. Hogatsu. [00:31:28] Speaker B: I. Think. People. Can. Hear. Me. My. Question. Is. [00:31:32] Speaker C: I. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Kept. Thinking. About. Our. Sajiki. Ceremony. And. Thinking. Of. Hua. Yan. And. The. Precepts. And. I. Wondered. If. You. Had. Some. Thoughts. About. That. Plugin. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:45] Speaker B: Well. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Sajiki. Used. To. Be. Called. Sagaki. Anyway. That's. A. Whole. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Lot. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Other. Story. But. It's. About. Feeding. The. Hungry. Ghosts. In. One. Sense. So. We. Do. These. This. Chant. The. Gate. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Of. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Sweet. Do. Filled. With. [00:31:59] Speaker C: All. [00:31:59] Speaker A: These. Dharanis. That. Open. The. Throats. Of. Hungry. Ghosts. So. That. They. Can. Consume. And. Take. Care. Of. Various. Aspects. Of. Who. And. [00:32:10] Speaker C: How. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Hungry. Ghosts. Are. And. So. Hungry. Ghosts. Are. There's. Six. Realms. I. [00:32:18] Speaker C: Don't. [00:32:18] Speaker A: Know. If. I. Should. Go. Into. All. [00:32:19] Speaker B: That. [00:32:19] Speaker A: But. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Maybe. I. Was. Thinking. [00:32:22] Speaker A: About. [00:32:22] Speaker B: The. Avatansaka. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:24] Speaker B: And. You. Know. In. Y. Teachings. And. [00:32:26] Speaker A: How. [00:32:28] Speaker B: All. Time. Is. Included. In. This. Ceremony. We. Kind. Of. Work. Time. On. Space. And. In. Some. Ways. Express. Our. Compassion. And. Gratitude. In. This. Way. That. Is. Also. Kind. Of. A. Honoring. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Of. [00:32:47] Speaker B: The. Precepts. And. Even. A. Giving. Of. Precepts. You. Know. Offer. The. Precepts. To. These. Unsettled. Spirits. I. Don't. Know. That's. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Kind. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Of. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. No. No. That's. Right. [00:32:58] Speaker B: But. You. Know. Like. Like. There's. Something. About. The. Way. Our. Practices. Kind. Of. Put. Together. That. As. You. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Say. [00:33:07] Speaker B: How. Foundational. Avatam. Satra. And. Maya. And. Teachings. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Are. [00:33:12] Speaker B: To. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Art. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Practice. This. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:14] Speaker B: At. Its. Core. [00:33:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:16] Speaker A: And. [00:33:16] Speaker C: We. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Also. Remember. Beings. Who've. Passed. In. The. In. [00:33:19] Speaker B: The. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Last. Year. So. There's. The. Hungry. Ghost. But. That. We're. Also. Celebrating. Beings. In. Our. Culture. And. In. Our. Lives. Who. Have. Passed. So. Yeah. All. Of. Those. Beings. Are. Together. And. That's. You. Know. [00:33:32] Speaker C: The. [00:33:32] Speaker A: Hawaiian. Aspect. Is. You. Know. In. Part. That. It. It's. All. Together. And. The. People. Who've. Passed. Who. We. Celebrate. And. The. Restless. Spirits. [00:33:45] Speaker C: That. [00:33:45] Speaker A: Are. There. Too. All. Of. The. Different. Realms. Come. Together. In. This. Ceremony. Through. Noise. Making. Through. Chants. And. Yeah. So. Yes. It's. Very. Huayan. Kind. Of. Experience. Yes. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Even. The. You. Know. Huayan. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Has. [00:34:03] Speaker B: This. Vivid. Imagery. [00:34:05] Speaker A: And. [00:34:05] Speaker B: I. Think. Connecting. To. That. As. Part. Of. The. Ceremony. Too. This. Kind. Of. Beyond. Our. Sort. Of. Conventional. Imaginations. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yes. That's. Right. [00:34:15] Speaker C: So. [00:34:15] Speaker A: There's. A. I. See. Somebody. On. The. With. A. Raised. Hand. Chris. [00:34:19] Speaker B: Cadman. [00:34:19] Speaker A: Has. His. Hand. Up. Chris. Chris. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Go. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Ahead. Good. Morning. Tygan. Good. Morning. Everybody. Hi. Chris. So. I. Wanted. [00:34:29] Speaker C: To. [00:34:29] Speaker A: Share. Kind. Of. [00:34:30] Speaker C: A. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Recent. Experience. That. [00:34:32] Speaker C: I'm. Still. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Kind. Of. Struggling. With. Of. You. Know. What. Seems. To. Be. A. Pretty. Simple. Precept. Of. Non. Killing. [00:34:40] Speaker C: And. I. [00:34:42] Speaker A: Prefer. The. Preserve. Life. [00:34:44] Speaker C: Or. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Protect. Life. So. Was. At. My. Mother. In. Law's. Grilling. A. Meal. For. Her. And. For. Us. And. There. Is. [00:34:57] Speaker B: A. [00:34:58] Speaker A: A. Spider. On. The. Grill. Before. I. Get. [00:35:02] Speaker B: It. [00:35:03] Speaker A: Started. And. I. And. I. And. This. Is. A. Big. Black. Spider. And. I. Haven't. Seen. One. Of. These. In. Decades. But. It. Ends. Up. [00:35:11] Speaker B: That. [00:35:11] Speaker A: This. Is. A. [00:35:11] Speaker C: Black. [00:35:12] Speaker A: Widow. And. [00:35:13] Speaker B: You. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Know. My. Mother. [00:35:15] Speaker C: In. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Law. Is. Older. And. Not. In. The. Greatest. Health. She. Has. Two. Dogs. [00:35:21] Speaker B: And. [00:35:22] Speaker A: Without. Even. Really. Giving. It. Much. Thought. I. Grabbed. A. Broom. [00:35:25] Speaker B: And. [00:35:25] Speaker A: I. Killed. That. Thing. Sure. And. So. It's. The. Getting. Stuck. With. Preserving. Life. On. [00:35:34] Speaker B: One. [00:35:34] Speaker A: End. By. Killing. [00:35:38] Speaker C: And. [00:35:39] Speaker A: I. Don't. [00:35:39] Speaker C: Know. [00:35:39] Speaker A: What. To. [00:35:39] Speaker C: Think. [00:35:40] Speaker A: About. That. Except. It. Hasn't. Sat. Well. With. Me. Okay. Well. Right. Yes. Killing. Spiders. You. Know. I. Like. Spiders. Because. They. Eat. Other. Bugs. But. You. Know. What. Do. We. Do. [00:35:53] Speaker C: With. [00:35:53] Speaker A: A. Spider. [00:35:53] Speaker C: Well. [00:35:53] Speaker A: A. Black. Widow. Spider. Is. Particular. Danger. So. Yeah. I. Think. You. Did. The. Right. Thing. [00:36:00] Speaker C: In. [00:36:00] Speaker A: My. Opinion. But. You. Know. In. Terms. Of. The. Precept. Not. Killing. And. Killing. Both. You. Know. Killing. [00:36:08] Speaker C: The. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Spider. Is. A. Violation. Not. Killing. The. Spider. Is. A. Violation. So. How. Do. We. How. Do. We. Live. With. That. And. So. Just. Considering. It. Just. Remembering. That. Black. Widow. Spider. Who. Had. Babies. And. And. You. Know. Had. A. Life. And. So. Forth. But. Also. Was. Dangerous. To. Other. Beings. Around. It. I. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Don't. [00:36:33] Speaker A: Know. Just. To. Just. To. Sit. With. That. Is. The. Point. So. I. See. David. Ray's. Hand. And. I. See. Jerry's. Hand. David. Ray. First. Is. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Not. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Thank. You. Tigen. Thank. [00:36:46] Speaker C: You. [00:36:46] Speaker A: For. Your. Talk. My. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Question. [00:36:49] Speaker A: Is. About. Something. That. Has. Been. Sitting. With. Me. From. Stefan's. Talk. [00:36:53] Speaker C: And. [00:36:54] Speaker A: I. Imagine. It. Still. Sitting. With. Some. Others. It. Was. [00:36:57] Speaker C: The. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Moment. When. Stefan. Was. Talking. About. [00:36:59] Speaker B: A. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Long. Period. Of. Chan. In. Which. He. Said. [00:37:03] Speaker C: Well. [00:37:05] Speaker A: There's. No. Evidence. That. Zazen. Was. [00:37:07] Speaker C: Practiced. [00:37:08] Speaker A: There's. No. Evidence. That. It. Wasn't. But. Neither. Is. There. Evidence. That. [00:37:10] Speaker C: It. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Was. Being. Practiced. Yeah. I. [00:37:12] Speaker B: See. [00:37:12] Speaker C: You. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Already. Shaking. Your. [00:37:14] Speaker C: Head. [00:37:14] Speaker A: So. [00:37:14] Speaker C: It. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Has. [00:37:15] Speaker C: Got. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Me. Thinking. About. About. The. Academic. [00:37:17] Speaker C: Study. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Of. Zen. Buddhism. Which. I. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Don't. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Know. [00:37:20] Speaker C: About. [00:37:20] Speaker A: That. Much. I. Mean. I'm. An. Academic. I'm. A. Classicist. [00:37:23] Speaker B: I. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Have. Opinions. About. You. Know. About. Academics. In. General. But. Most. Academics. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Do. [00:37:29] Speaker A: But. [00:37:31] Speaker B: It. Has. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Been. Strange. For. Me. This. Week. Thinking. About. It. And. [00:37:35] Speaker B: I. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Saw. A. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Series. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Of. Interviews. YouTube. Video. Interviews. And. The. First. Was. Paul. Kopp. And. Jimmy. Yu. And. It. Was. [00:37:41] Speaker C: Cool. It. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Was. Practice. Informed. And. Very. Scholarly. And. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Then. [00:37:44] Speaker A: The. Next. [00:37:45] Speaker B: One. [00:37:45] Speaker A: That. I. Watched. [00:37:45] Speaker B: Was. [00:37:46] Speaker C: Was. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Clearly. Between. Two. Academic. Scholars. Of. Zen. Who. Clearly. Don't. Practice. [00:37:52] Speaker C: And. [00:37:52] Speaker A: One. Started. To. Talk. About. Meditation. And. Said. [00:37:54] Speaker C: Well. I. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Guess. With. Meditation. You. Start. To. Get. More. [00:37:57] Speaker B: And. [00:37:57] Speaker A: More. Mental. Control. And. You. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Get. [00:37:59] Speaker A: More. And. [00:38:00] Speaker B: More. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Distant. [00:38:00] Speaker C: From. Life. [00:38:01] Speaker A: This. [00:38:01] Speaker B: Is. [00:38:01] Speaker A: A. Scholar. Of. Zen. Buddhism. And. I. Kind. Of. Laughed. [00:38:04] Speaker C: Out. [00:38:04] Speaker A: Loud. [00:38:04] Speaker B: So. [00:38:06] Speaker A: I. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Just. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Wanted. To. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Hear. [00:38:06] Speaker A: What. You. Might. Have. To. Say. About. All. Of. That. Oh. My. [00:38:11] Speaker B: Well. I'm. [00:38:12] Speaker A: Both. An. Academic. And. This. [00:38:15] Speaker B: And. [00:38:15] Speaker A: A. Practitioner. A. Practitioner. First. But. [00:38:17] Speaker C: I. Have. [00:38:18] Speaker A: A. PhD. And. You. Know. Anyway. And. I. Teach. Adjunct. Among. The. Adjunct. Faculty. [00:38:23] Speaker C: Of. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Institute. Of. Buddhist. Studies. And. I'm. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Teaching. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Dogen. This. Spring. And. [00:38:27] Speaker B: I. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Taught. Dongshan. Last. Spring. Anyway. So. [00:38:32] Speaker C: And. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Maybe. Paul. Can. Respond. To. This. Also. But. You. Know. There. Are. Academic. Scholars. Who. Actually. Understand. Zen. Some. Of. Them. Sit. Some. Of. Them. Don't. But. They. Understand. It. You. Know. In. A. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Way. [00:38:45] Speaker A: That. I. Can. Appreciate. And. Then. There. Are. Scholars. Who. Are. Just. You. Know. Bickering. About. This. Point. And. That. Point. And. The. Qu. The. Thing. About. Not. Practicing. Zazen. For. Long. Periods. Of. Time. I. Just. Don't. Believe. I. Think. There. Were. Periods. When. There. Was. [00:39:04] Speaker C: More. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Well. There. Asian. Buddhism. Is. More. Devotional. First. [00:39:08] Speaker C: Of. [00:39:08] Speaker A: All. [00:39:09] Speaker C: So. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Devotional. Practices. Chanting. And. So. Forth. Are. [00:39:13] Speaker C: More. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Have. Been. At. Times. Much. More. Part. Of. The. Life. Of. Buddhists. Than. Sitting. And. For. Lay. People. In. Some. Parts. [00:39:22] Speaker C: Of. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Asia. You. Know. They. Don't. Sit. As. Much. They. Sit. Occasionally. The. Monastics. Are. [00:39:28] Speaker B: The. [00:39:29] Speaker A: Ones. Who. Sit. And. So. You. Know. It's. Possible. To. Parse. This. In. Various. Ways. But. You. Know. That. [00:39:37] Speaker B: The. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Fact. That. People. Didn't. Write. About. Zazen. For. Periods. Of. Time. Doesn't. Mean. That. They. Weren't. Sitting. Zazen. It. Just. Doesn't. So. Anyway. [00:39:47] Speaker C: I. I. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Don't. [00:39:48] Speaker C: I. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Don't. Know. What. Else. [00:39:48] Speaker B: To. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Say. About. It. There. There. There. Used. To. [00:39:52] Speaker C: Be. [00:39:52] Speaker A: Well. I. Don't. Know. I. Don't. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Know. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Anymore. [00:39:55] Speaker B: I'm. [00:39:56] Speaker A: I'm. Out. Of. The. Loop. I. Don't. Go. To. American. Academy. Of. Religion. Conferences. For. A. Long. Time. Now. [00:40:02] Speaker C: Which. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Is. [00:40:02] Speaker B: A. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Conference. Where. There's. Ten. Thousand. Scholars. And. You. Know. Thousand. Of. Them. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Are. [00:40:07] Speaker A: Buddhist. Scholars. Or. Whatever. And. Anyway. But. Yeah. There. There. Are. Scholars. Of. Buddhism. Who. Really. Do. Practice. Or. There. Are. Many. Scholars. Of. Of. Zen. Buddhism. Who. Did. Practice. At. Some. Point. Start. Naming. Them. But. I. Won't. So. Anyway. It's. But. Academia. Yeah. There. Are. Things. That. Are. Affable. [00:40:36] Speaker B: So. [00:40:37] Speaker A: I. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Don't. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Know. [00:40:37] Speaker C: If. That. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Responds. [00:40:38] Speaker C: To. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Your. Question. David. It. Does. Thank. You. Thank. [00:40:42] Speaker C: You. [00:40:42] Speaker A: Okay. Yes. Jerry. I. Had. [00:40:46] Speaker B: A. Similar. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Thought. [00:40:47] Speaker B: To. [00:40:47] Speaker A: David. But. The. Idea. [00:40:50] Speaker B: To. Me. [00:40:50] Speaker A: That. [00:40:52] Speaker B: There. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Was. [00:40:52] Speaker B: A. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Period. Of. Zen. Where. [00:40:53] Speaker B: It's. Possible. Nobody. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Sat. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Meditation. Was. [00:40:55] Speaker A: A. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Little. Bit. Shocking. [00:40:56] Speaker A: To. Me. Because. I. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Grew. Up. In. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Zen. [00:41:00] Speaker B: Where. [00:41:01] Speaker A: That. Was. [00:41:01] Speaker B: The. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Main. [00:41:01] Speaker B: Focus. [00:41:02] Speaker A: You. Sat. You. Did. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Koans. [00:41:03] Speaker A: You. Sat. You. Did. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Koans. [00:41:05] Speaker A: And. [00:41:05] Speaker B: It. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Made. [00:41:05] Speaker B: Me. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Realize. You. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Know. [00:41:06] Speaker A: When. [00:41:06] Speaker C: I. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Came. To. Ancient. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Dragon. From. Another. Zen. [00:41:09] Speaker B: Center. There. Were. Many. Things. That. [00:41:11] Speaker C: Ancient. [00:41:11] Speaker B: Dragon. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Did. That. [00:41:12] Speaker C: I. [00:41:12] Speaker A: Thought. What. [00:41:15] Speaker B: People. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Talked. [00:41:15] Speaker B: In. [00:41:15] Speaker A: The. Zeno. I. [00:41:16] Speaker C: Thought. [00:41:18] Speaker A: The. Way. [00:41:20] Speaker C: The. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Tenzo. Prepared. [00:41:22] Speaker C: The. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Meal. To. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Me. [00:41:23] Speaker C: Was. All. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Wrong. And. I. Thought. Well. [00:41:24] Speaker A: And. [00:41:25] Speaker B: So. [00:41:25] Speaker A: When. I. [00:41:25] Speaker B: Heard. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Stefan. [00:41:26] Speaker C: Say. [00:41:26] Speaker A: That. [00:41:26] Speaker B: About. [00:41:27] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:41:27] Speaker B: There. Was. A. Time. When. [00:41:28] Speaker A: People. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Didn't. Meditate. [00:41:29] Speaker C: I. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Thought. [00:41:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:31] Speaker A: You. Think. [00:41:31] Speaker B: You. Know. [00:41:32] Speaker C: What. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Zen. [00:41:32] Speaker A: Is. [00:41:32] Speaker C: All. [00:41:32] Speaker B: About. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:41:33] Speaker B: You're. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Clueless. Maybe. [00:41:34] Speaker B: They. Didn't. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Meditate. Maybe. [00:41:35] Speaker C: This. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Is. [00:41:36] Speaker B: A. New. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Phenomena. And. [00:41:37] Speaker C: Yes. [00:41:38] Speaker A: It's. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Important. To. [00:41:38] Speaker A: Me. And. My. Zazen. Practice. But. That. Was. Really. [00:41:43] Speaker C: Helpful. [00:41:43] Speaker A: To. Me. Because. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Once. [00:41:44] Speaker A: Again. It. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Opened. Up. [00:41:46] Speaker A: What. I. Think. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Zen. Meditation. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Is. All. About. I. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Opened. [00:41:49] Speaker C: Up. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Space. To. [00:41:51] Speaker C: Say. [00:41:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:51] Speaker A: Let's. [00:41:51] Speaker C: Think. [00:41:51] Speaker A: About. [00:41:52] Speaker B: What. [00:41:52] Speaker A: It. Is. You're. Doing. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Here. [00:41:53] Speaker A: And. Why. And. How. That. Looks. [00:41:55] Speaker B: In. Your. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Life. Yeah. Again. In. Asian. Buddhism. A. Great. There's. A. Great. Deal. Of. Devotional. Practice. Visualizing. Chanting. Devotional. Activities. And. So. Meditation. Is. Not. As. Emphasized. As. It. Is. In. American. Zen. It. Certainly. Is. At. Eheji. And. Sojiji. In. Places. Training. Temples. Where. Young. Monks. Are. Trained. In. Zazen. But. Anyway. [00:42:28] Speaker B: But. [00:42:28] Speaker A: That. Doesn't. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Mean. [00:42:29] Speaker A: There. Wasn't. Zazen. It. Just. Means. That. There's. A. Different. Emphasis. And. A. Lot. Of. The. Japanese. Priests. Who've. Come. To. America. Suzuki. Roshi. Katagiri. Roshi. Shohaku. They. You. Know. Shohaku. [00:42:47] Speaker C: When. [00:42:47] Speaker A: He. I. Translated. With. Him. In. Japan. At. His. Temple. Outside. Kyoto. And. He. Had. To. Spend. A. Lot. A. Large. Part. Of. His. Time. Going. Around. To. Doing. Memorial. Services. And. He. Was. More. Interested. In. Zazen. So. The. Japanese. Priests. Who. Came. To. America. Were. More. More. Interested. In. Sasan. [00:43:07] Speaker B: And. [00:43:08] Speaker A: The. American. Students. Who. Came. To. Suzuki. Roshi. In. The. Sixties. You. Know. Were. Interested. In. Meditation. They. Weren't. Interested. In. You. Know. The. Sutras. And. You. Know. All. Of. The. Other. Stuff. That. Is. Part. Of. Buddhist. That. [00:43:25] Speaker C: Is. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Definitely. Part. Of. Buddhism. So. You. Know. [00:43:29] Speaker B: We. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Have. We're. Maybe. A. Little. Skewed. Towards. Meditation. But. That's. Okay. Other. Comments. Questions. Yazan. Yes. Just. [00:43:42] Speaker C: To. Further. Comment. On. [00:43:45] Speaker A: This. These. [00:43:46] Speaker C: Things. That. Stefan. Said. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Last. Week. That. [00:43:49] Speaker C: Aroused. So. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Much. Comment. [00:43:50] Speaker C: I. Would. Just. Like. [00:43:51] Speaker A: To. [00:43:52] Speaker C: Note. That. I. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Did. [00:43:53] Speaker C: Not. Hear. Stefan. [00:43:55] Speaker A: To. [00:43:55] Speaker C: Be. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Making. [00:43:55] Speaker C: A. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Claim. [00:43:56] Speaker C: That. There. Were. Hundreds. Of. Years. When. [00:43:59] Speaker A: People. [00:43:59] Speaker C: Were. [00:44:00] Speaker A: Not. [00:44:00] Speaker C: Doing. Zazan. I. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Heard. Him. [00:44:02] Speaker C: To. [00:44:02] Speaker A: Be. [00:44:02] Speaker C: Very. Carefully. Delineating. [00:44:05] Speaker A: In. [00:44:06] Speaker C: Part. [00:44:06] Speaker A: What. I. Thought. [00:44:07] Speaker C: That. Was. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Hat. Was. [00:44:08] Speaker C: Happening. There. Was. [00:44:08] Speaker A: He. Was. [00:44:09] Speaker C: Delineating. Carefully. And. Responsibly. [00:44:12] Speaker A: The. [00:44:13] Speaker C: Difference. [00:44:13] Speaker A: Between. [00:44:14] Speaker C: The. Kind. [00:44:15] Speaker A: Of. [00:44:16] Speaker C: Claims. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Someone. [00:44:17] Speaker C: Might. Make. Kind. Of. Statements. [00:44:19] Speaker A: Someone. Might. Make. Sitting. [00:44:20] Speaker C: In. [00:44:20] Speaker A: The. [00:44:21] Speaker C: Teaching. Seat. And. The. Kind. [00:44:23] Speaker A: Of. Claims. [00:44:24] Speaker C: One. Could. Make. Responsibility. Responsibility. As. A. Scholar. I. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Felt. [00:44:29] Speaker C: The. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Much. [00:44:29] Speaker C: More. So. That's. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Just. One. Thing. [00:44:32] Speaker C: I. Felt. The. Much. More. Interesting. Part. Of. [00:44:34] Speaker A: His. [00:44:34] Speaker C: Talk. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Or. What. Got. My. [00:44:36] Speaker C: Attention. [00:44:37] Speaker A: You. [00:44:37] Speaker C: Know. Was. [00:44:38] Speaker A: All. [00:44:38] Speaker C: This. Discourse. About. And. [00:44:41] Speaker A: I'm. [00:44:41] Speaker C: Sorry. [00:44:41] Speaker A: This. [00:44:42] Speaker C: Question. [00:44:42] Speaker A: Will. [00:44:42] Speaker C: Be. A. Little. Long. To. Articulate. [00:44:45] Speaker A: But. You. [00:44:45] Speaker C: Know. [00:44:45] Speaker A: All. [00:44:46] Speaker C: This. Discourse. About. You. Know. Once. You. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Receive. [00:44:48] Speaker C: The. Precepts. [00:44:49] Speaker A: It's. In. [00:44:50] Speaker C: Your. Body. You're. Imprinted. Now. [00:44:52] Speaker A: Of. Course. We. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Hear. Many. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Things. Closer. [00:44:54] Speaker C: To. Home. That. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Are. [00:44:55] Speaker C: Very. Similar. [00:44:56] Speaker A: You. Know. [00:44:57] Speaker C: Suzuki. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Roshi. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Says. That. [00:45:00] Speaker A: You. [00:45:00] Speaker C: Know. If. [00:45:01] Speaker A: You. [00:45:01] Speaker C: If. You. [00:45:02] Speaker A: Do. [00:45:02] Speaker C: Zazen. The. Precepts. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Will. [00:45:05] Speaker C: Take. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Care. Of. [00:45:06] Speaker C: Themselves. We. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Have. [00:45:08] Speaker C: You. Know. My. Understanding. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Of. [00:45:09] Speaker C: The. Branching. Streams. There. [00:45:11] Speaker A: Was. [00:45:11] Speaker C: A. Lot. [00:45:11] Speaker A: Of. [00:45:12] Speaker C: Talk. About. The. Precepts. And. [00:45:14] Speaker A: The. [00:45:14] Speaker C: Sort. [00:45:14] Speaker A: Of. Distinction. [00:45:15] Speaker C: Between. Kind. Of. I. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Think. [00:45:17] Speaker C: It. Was. [00:45:17] Speaker A: I. Think. The. [00:45:17] Speaker C: Way. [00:45:17] Speaker A: I. Heard. [00:45:18] Speaker C: Douglas. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Refer. To. It. [00:45:19] Speaker C: Was. One. Mind. Approach. Versus. A. [00:45:21] Speaker A: More. [00:45:22] Speaker C: Articulated. You. Know. More. Literalistic. More. Legalistic. Approach. [00:45:27] Speaker A: And. The. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Thing. [00:45:27] Speaker C: About. You. [00:45:28] Speaker A: Know. And. And. Then. Again. This. [00:45:30] Speaker C: Morning. You're. Talking. About. [00:45:31] Speaker A: The. [00:45:31] Speaker C: The. [00:45:31] Speaker A: Kind. Of. [00:45:32] Speaker C: Non. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Dual. [00:45:34] Speaker C: Approach. But. [00:45:35] Speaker A: The. [00:45:35] Speaker C: Thing. [00:45:35] Speaker B: That. [00:45:35] Speaker C: Strikes. Me. Is. Is. That. [00:45:37] Speaker A: When. [00:45:37] Speaker C: We. [00:45:37] Speaker A: Talk. [00:45:37] Speaker C: There. Are. Lots. Of. Sort. Of. Tropes. In. Buddhism. The. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Moon. [00:45:40] Speaker C: Does. Not. Divide. The. Water. The. Water. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Does. [00:45:42] Speaker C: Not. Divide. The. [00:45:43] Speaker A: Moon. You. [00:45:45] Speaker C: Know. The. Madhyamaka. Discourse. The. [00:45:48] Speaker B: The. [00:45:49] Speaker C: Ultimate. [00:45:49] Speaker A: Truth. [00:45:50] Speaker C: Or. Whatever. You. Would. Say. About. However. [00:45:51] Speaker A: You. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Would. [00:45:52] Speaker C: Label. That. Does. Not. Occlude. Or. Obliterate. Conventional. [00:45:58] Speaker A: Truth. [00:45:58] Speaker C: And. In. Fact. [00:46:00] Speaker A: You. [00:46:00] Speaker C: Know. [00:46:00] Speaker A: Our. [00:46:01] Speaker C: Only. Approach. [00:46:01] Speaker A: To. The. [00:46:02] Speaker C: Bigger. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Truth. [00:46:03] Speaker C: Is. Precisely. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Through. Conventional. Truths. Yes. All. [00:46:07] Speaker C: This. Kind. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Of. Thing. [00:46:09] Speaker C: Yet. [00:46:11] Speaker A: When. We. Come. To. [00:46:12] Speaker C: The. Precepts. [00:46:14] Speaker A: You. [00:46:14] Speaker C: Know. Another. One. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Just. Because. It's. Handy. [00:46:16] Speaker C: In. Yen. [00:46:16] Speaker A: You. Know. The. The. Four. [00:46:18] Speaker C: Dharmadatus. Particulars. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Don't. [00:46:19] Speaker C: Divide. The. [00:46:20] Speaker A: One. [00:46:20] Speaker C: The. One. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Does. [00:46:20] Speaker C: Not. Divide. You. Know. Obstruct. All. That. [00:46:23] Speaker A: Kind. Of. [00:46:23] Speaker C: Thing. [00:46:24] Speaker A: But. When. We. [00:46:24] Speaker C: Come. [00:46:24] Speaker A: To. The. [00:46:24] Speaker C: Precepts. [00:46:25] Speaker A: We. [00:46:25] Speaker C: Get. [00:46:25] Speaker A: This. [00:46:26] Speaker C: Kind. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Of. [00:46:26] Speaker C: Stuff. [00:46:27] Speaker A: Where. You. [00:46:28] Speaker C: Know. Once. [00:46:29] Speaker A: You. [00:46:29] Speaker C: Know. Once. [00:46:30] Speaker A: You've. Got. The. [00:46:30] Speaker C: Magic. [00:46:30] Speaker A: You. Know. You. Can't. [00:46:32] Speaker C: Violate. Precepts. [00:46:33] Speaker B: And. [00:46:33] Speaker C: There. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Was. Stuff. In. [00:46:34] Speaker C: Stephan's. [00:46:35] Speaker A: Talk. [00:46:36] Speaker C: That. Indicated. [00:46:37] Speaker A: The. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Real. Dangers. Of. That. [00:46:39] Speaker A: Approach. Sure. [00:46:41] Speaker C: So. To. Kind. [00:46:42] Speaker B: Of. [00:46:42] Speaker C: Conclude. With. [00:46:43] Speaker A: The. [00:46:43] Speaker C: Question. [00:46:43] Speaker A: You. Get. [00:46:43] Speaker C: Somebody. Like. Suzuki. Roshi. [00:46:45] Speaker A: Who. Seems. [00:46:45] Speaker C: I. [00:46:46] Speaker B: Never. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Met. [00:46:46] Speaker C: The. Man. But. He. Seems. [00:46:47] Speaker A: To. [00:46:47] Speaker C: Have. Been. [00:46:48] Speaker A: A. [00:46:48] Speaker C: Very. To. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Use. [00:46:49] Speaker C: Rebs. Terminology. Upright. Solid. A. Man. [00:46:52] Speaker A: Of. Good. [00:46:53] Speaker C: Character. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:46:54] Speaker C: And. So. [00:46:54] Speaker A: That. He. Could. Say. Things. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Like. [00:46:56] Speaker B: Well. [00:46:56] Speaker A: You. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Know. You. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Said. [00:46:57] Speaker C: The. Precepts. Will. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Take. Care. [00:46:58] Speaker C: Of. Themselves. [00:46:59] Speaker A: But. [00:46:59] Speaker C: Then. You. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Know. [00:47:01] Speaker C: I. Don't. Know. If. [00:47:01] Speaker A: I. Should. [00:47:01] Speaker C: Name. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Names. We've. Had. [00:47:05] Speaker C: Teachers. [00:47:06] Speaker A: Prominent. [00:47:06] Speaker C: Teachers. In. This. Country. Who. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Seem. [00:47:08] Speaker C: To. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Take. [00:47:08] Speaker C: The. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Seemed. You. Know. To. Have. [00:47:10] Speaker C: Been. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Informed. [00:47:11] Speaker C: By. [00:47:11] Speaker A: This. [00:47:12] Speaker C: Notion. Like. [00:47:13] Speaker A: I. Know. I. [00:47:14] Speaker C: Didn't. [00:47:14] Speaker A: Hear. Him. Say. [00:47:14] Speaker C: This. [00:47:14] Speaker A: But. They. Seemed. To. Have. This. [00:47:16] Speaker C: Idea. [00:47:16] Speaker A: That. They. Couldn't. Do. Anything. [00:47:18] Speaker C: Wrong. [00:47:18] Speaker A: You. Know. Or. [00:47:20] Speaker C: That. [00:47:20] Speaker A: Their. [00:47:20] Speaker C: Abuses. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Would. Be. [00:47:21] Speaker C: Tolerated. [00:47:22] Speaker A: And. And. So. [00:47:23] Speaker C: It's. Kind. Of. [00:47:24] Speaker A: Like. You. Know. [00:47:25] Speaker C: It's. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Kind. [00:47:26] Speaker C: There's. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Some. [00:47:26] Speaker C: Analogy. Here. It's. Like. [00:47:27] Speaker A: If. [00:47:28] Speaker C: You've. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Got. The. [00:47:28] Speaker C: Norms. Then. [00:47:30] Speaker A: The. [00:47:30] Speaker C: System. [00:47:30] Speaker A: Works. But. [00:47:31] Speaker C: One. Like. Talking. [00:47:32] Speaker A: About. [00:47:32] Speaker C: Politics. Now. [00:47:33] Speaker A: When. [00:47:34] Speaker C: Certain. Norms. Disappear. [00:47:36] Speaker A: Is. Not. [00:47:36] Speaker C: Enough. And. [00:47:37] Speaker A: I. Think. That. We. [00:47:37] Speaker C: Are. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Kind. Of. [00:47:40] Speaker C: In. [00:47:40] Speaker A: That. [00:47:40] Speaker C: Situation. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Maybe. With. The. [00:47:42] Speaker C: Precepts. [00:47:42] Speaker A: In. [00:47:43] Speaker C: Soto. Zen. [00:47:45] Speaker A: You. [00:47:45] Speaker C: Know. [00:47:45] Speaker A: So. We. [00:47:46] Speaker C: Don't. [00:47:47] Speaker A: Need. To. Take. [00:47:47] Speaker C: The. Precepts. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Literally. [00:47:48] Speaker C: It's. Not. A. Matter. [00:47:49] Speaker A: Of. [00:47:49] Speaker C: Taking. Them. Literally. And. Obeying. [00:47:51] Speaker A: The. Rules. And. Getting. Things. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Right. But. I. Feel. Strongly. [00:47:55] Speaker A: It's. [00:47:55] Speaker C: Also. Not. [00:47:55] Speaker A: Not. [00:47:56] Speaker C: That. [00:47:56] Speaker A: That. It's. Important. Not. To. [00:47:58] Speaker C: Sexually. Abuse. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Your. Students. And. [00:48:00] Speaker C: Docuson. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Right. It's. Important. [00:48:03] Speaker C: You. Know. [00:48:03] Speaker A: To. Have. To. [00:48:05] Speaker C: Take. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Them. [00:48:05] Speaker C: More. Seriously. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:07] Speaker C: In. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Some. Ways. [00:48:08] Speaker C: And. And. [00:48:09] Speaker A: There's. A. [00:48:09] Speaker C: Tension. There. [00:48:10] Speaker A: With. The. With. The. [00:48:11] Speaker C: Sort. [00:48:11] Speaker A: Of. [00:48:11] Speaker C: Non. Dual. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Way. Of. [00:48:12] Speaker C: Talking. [00:48:13] Speaker A: About. It. [00:48:13] Speaker C: And. [00:48:14] Speaker A: That's. Right. That. [00:48:15] Speaker C: Reality. [00:48:15] Speaker A: So. [00:48:16] Speaker C: Thank. [00:48:16] Speaker A: You. For. That. [00:48:16] Speaker C: Your. Patience. There. [00:48:17] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So. I. [00:48:19] Speaker C: Just. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Want. To. Say. That. To. Say. That. Killing. Violates. [00:48:23] Speaker C: The. [00:48:23] Speaker A: Precepts. And. Not. Killing. Violates. [00:48:25] Speaker C: The. [00:48:25] Speaker A: Precepts. Killing. Violates. [00:48:28] Speaker C: The. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Precepts. So. We. Have. To. Understand. These. Precepts. Conventionally. Very. Deeply. First. Before. We. Get. Into. [00:48:36] Speaker B: That. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Non. Dual. Stuff. So. Yes. There. Have. Been. Various. Transgressions. And. You. Know. Anyway. [00:48:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:44] Speaker A: I. Mean. I. Agree. With. You. So. We. Have. To. Understand. The. Precepts. Somewhat. [00:48:49] Speaker C: Literally. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Well. [00:48:54] Speaker A: It's. [00:48:54] Speaker B: Probably. Time. For. Us. To. Move. Along. To. Tea. Which. Will. Have. Tea. Next. I. Did. Want. To. Thank. [00:49:02] Speaker C: You. [00:49:02] Speaker B: Very. Much. For. Continuing. This. Conversation. Both. With. Ben. Connolly's. Work. And. Stefan. Leica's. Work. In. That. These. Are. Topics. That. Will. Unfold. The. [00:49:15] Speaker A: Rest. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Of. Our. Practice. Lives. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:49:17] Speaker B: And. It's. Been. Really. Wonderful. To. [00:49:19] Speaker A: Have. [00:49:20] Speaker B: You. Open. Them. Up. And. And. Kindle. Them. Or. Keep. Them. Going. You. Know. Tending. The. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Fire. [00:49:26] Speaker B: You. Could. Say. Also. This. Is. Very. Timely. Because. We. [00:49:30] Speaker A: Have. [00:49:30] Speaker B: A. Precepts. Class. Happening. And. Niozen. I. Think. You'd. Be. Happy. To. Hear. That. You. Know. People. Are. Really. Engaging. The. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Real. [00:49:39] Speaker B: Life. Applications. Of. The. Precepts. Which. I. Think. Is. Really. Wonderful. And. We're. [00:49:45] Speaker A: Doing. [00:49:45] Speaker B: This. At. Ancient. Dragon. In. So. Many. Ways. So. And. It's. Always. Good. To. Be. Reminded. That. There. Can. Be. A. [00:49:53] Speaker A: Blind. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Spot. Or. That. We. Can. Get. Caught. In. Emptiness. Or. Relativity. And. We. [00:50:03] Speaker A: Have. [00:50:04] Speaker B: To. Like. Chris. I. Think. So. Nicely. Pointed. Out. We. See. This. Spider. And. We. Make. A. Response. And. Still. There's. Still. Sorrow. You. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Know. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Suzuki. Roshi. Said. Something. Like. Not. Killing. Is. A. Dead. Precept. Excuse. Me. Or. I'm. Sorry. Is. A. Live. One. And. [00:50:23] Speaker A: I. [00:50:23] Speaker B: Think. There's. A. Humility. That. The. Precepts. [00:50:25] Speaker A: And. [00:50:26] Speaker B: That. The. Y. N. Teachings. Give. Us. [00:50:27] Speaker A: And. [00:50:28] Speaker B: That. You've. Offered. [00:50:28] Speaker A: Us. [00:50:29] Speaker B: Tigan. So. Thank. You. Very. Much. For. Being. Here. [00:50:33] Speaker A: You're. Welcome. [00:50:33] Speaker B: Look. Forward. To. Your. Next. Appearance. Which. I. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Think. [00:50:36] Speaker B: Is. [00:50:37] Speaker A: In. [00:50:37] Speaker B: A. [00:50:37] Speaker C: Few. Weeks. [00:50:38] Speaker B: And. What. Are. You. Teaching. These. Days. [00:50:41] Speaker A: Ah. Well. I. Just. Oh. My. Gosh. I. Just. Finished. Teaching. A. Seminar. Yesterday. Through. San. Francisco. Zen. Center. On. The. Bodhisattva. Archetypes. Which. Is. A. Three. Part. Seminar. On. Shakyamuni. And. Manjushri. And. Valakiteshvara. And. Samantha. Bhadra. And. Maitreya. And. Jizo. [00:51:02] Speaker C: And. [00:51:02] Speaker A: Vimalakirti. To. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Name. [00:51:05] Speaker A: Us. Few. And. I'm. Going. To. Be. Teaching. Dogen. And. Heikoroku. In. [00:51:10] Speaker B: The. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Spring. And. [00:51:12] Speaker B: Here. At. Ancient. Dragon. [00:51:13] Speaker A: Here. At. Ancient. Dragon. And. Also. At. Institute. Of. Buddhist. Studies. And. At. San. Francisco. Zenzen. So. Yeah. Anyway. So. I'm. I'm. Basically. Going. Over. All. The. Stuff. I've. Done. And. Reshaping. It. [00:51:28] Speaker B: How. Lucky. We. Are. To. Have. Someone. With. [00:51:30] Speaker A: A. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Lifetime. Of. Practice. [00:51:32] Speaker A: In. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Your. Areas. And. [00:51:35] Speaker A: You. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Know. Well. [00:51:36] Speaker A: How. [00:51:36] Speaker C: Lucky. [00:51:37] Speaker A: We. Are. To. Have. Sazen. And. To. Have. Buddha. So. Buddha. Is. Everywhere. You. Know. Buddha. Is. On. Our. Seats. We. Don't. Recognize. Her. Some. [00:51:49] Speaker C: Of. [00:51:50] Speaker B: The. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Time. But. Buddha. Is. Here. In. Zazen. That's. The. That's. Part. Of. The. Non. Dual. Part. Point. In. [00:51:58] Speaker C: Part. [00:51:58] Speaker B: Of. The. [00:51:58] Speaker A: Point. That. Yan. Was. Getting. At. That. You. Know. Whether. Or. Not. We. Act. Properly. There. Is. Buddha. In. All. Things. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Well. Thank. You. Very. Much. [00:52:10] Speaker C: And. [00:52:11] Speaker B: I. Think. Maybe. We'll. Chant. Our. Vows. And. And. Then. We'll. Do. Announcements. [00:52:19] Speaker A: So. [00:52:21] Speaker B: They. Are. Intention. Equally. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Extend. To. Every. Being. [00:52:27] Speaker B: And. [00:52:27] Speaker A: Place. [00:52:29] Speaker B: With. The. [00:52:29] Speaker A: True. [00:52:30] Speaker B: Precepts. Of. Buddha's. Way. Beings. Are. Numberless. We. [00:52:39] Speaker A: Vow. To. [00:52:40] Speaker B: Free. Them. Delusions. [00:52:43] Speaker A: Are. Inexhaustible. We. [00:52:47] Speaker B: Vow. To. Go. Through. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Them. [00:52:50] Speaker B: Our. Gates. Are. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Boundless. We. Vow. [00:52:56] Speaker B: To. Enter. Them. [00:52:58] Speaker A: Buddha's. [00:52:59] Speaker B: Way. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Is. Unsurpassable. [00:53:02] Speaker C: We. [00:53:03] Speaker A: Vow. To. Realize. It. [00:53:06] Speaker B: In. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Our. Members. We. Are. House. You. Love. To. Love. [00:53:48] Speaker B: Deep.